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The plain old .45 ACP has proven plenty reliable, yes.
Further more, as far as non-sophisticated ammo goes, the .22 LR has put plenty down.
R.I.P. Handgun Ammo ?
- Thread starter skyhorse
- Start date
The plain old .45 ACP has proven plenty reliable, yes.
Further more, as far as non-sophisticated ammo goes, the .22 LR has put plenty down.
And with recent developments in bullet technology, the 9mm and .40 S&W are proving to be comparable.
Yes, but not always right away.
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Specifically 9mm. I haven't really seen anyone buying new .40 these days. Along with that, just got an email from a LGS selling off .40 inventory real cheap. Like $200 off some models. Seems the boom of tech in 9mm has kind of left .40 behind.
M67
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Okay BS, where exactly am I at fault here?
You initially said, Black Talon is still around "IIRC" under a new name. I responded not entirely. I did not say that's a lie, that you're full of it. I mentioned a couple bullets that were better versions of the Black Talon.
What exactly is your problem here?
UffDa
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I knew when I read the first post that this would turn into a pissing match. I have not been disappointed. 
Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow wrote a book in the early 1990s about handgun stopping power. It was based on actual shootings and examining bullet wounds. Of course, after it was published everyone and their brother had their opinion and there was a lot of pissing matches. Since then, there have been many more books written on the subject. Most are just more BS. People have been shot with .22s and fell down and died. Others have been shot multiple times with .45s and kept on fighting. I met a one armed knife maker at a knife show who was hit in the upper left arm with a .44 Magnum. It didn't kill him or even knock him down. It did mess up his arm though.
Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow wrote a book in the early 1990s about handgun stopping power. It was based on actual shootings and examining bullet wounds. Of course, after it was published everyone and their brother had their opinion and there was a lot of pissing matches. Since then, there have been many more books written on the subject. Most are just more BS. People have been shot with .22s and fell down and died. Others have been shot multiple times with .45s and kept on fighting. I met a one armed knife maker at a knife show who was hit in the upper left arm with a .44 Magnum. It didn't kill him or even knock him down. It did mess up his arm though.
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Business as usual *SIGH*I knew when I read the first post that this would turn into a pissing match. I have not been disappointed.
For sure one shouldnt turn up ones nose at the .22.
Many MANY people have dropped dead from one .22.
As for the .44 Magnum, that is an efficient round as is the mighty .45 BUT you just never can tell;
Larry Flynt got hit twice with a .44 Magnum.
He aint out dancing but he is still alive.
This.
The human factor is way to much a wild card for anyone to predict how a bullet i going to work on another human being. Some guys will drop from a .22 round, others need multiple hits ith a .45. Google the Perry Stevens/George Strong shooting in Louisiana. A .45 wasn't having any effect until he shot the guy right behind the ear with his 1911.
The fact is, it's a gun, it shoots a bullet. It can kill you. All those guys writing the books like Marshall and Sanow are doing it for the money. It's always about the money. I'm leary of people who are writers for gun magazines preaching what to use. Too many variables.
The F.B.I. has been touted as the great authority of guns and effects of shooting. They went to the .40 for better 'stopping' and spent a lot of our tax payer bucks on the new guns and stockpiles of ammo. Now, they have changed their minds, gone back to 9mm, and spent a ton of our money buying new guns and stockpiles of ammo.
During WW2, the O.S.S. did a to of battlefield research into what guns to issue to agents being dropped into Germany occupied Europe. They cam up with the .32acp and issued the Colt pocket model auto. They felt the .32acp offered adequate penetration to reach vital organs, and good accuracy for shot placement in a flat easy to conceal package. The American military felt the .45acp was the best thing since sliced bread and issued the Thompson and later the M3 'grease gun' while the British military felt the 9mm was the thing and issued out the little STEN MK4. Both killed lots of people.
Use what you can shoot the best. A dangerous man with a .22 beats a yahoo with a .45. And any bullet that penetrates tyne body and reaches vital organs and punctures them, will do, even a full metal jacket. Take what the gun rags publish with a grain of salt. Their in the business of selling advertising, not necessarily publishing accurate information.
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Agreed.
Same with knives - I think about it every time we see a post about the slew of couch ninja kids claiming, that they hold out their left arm to be sliced as a defense and then use their other hand to wield a knife or gun. 100% BS.
Its all braggadocio until the slicing or the shootings starts, then its a chaos of screaming mad panic with lots of flailing of arms and running and most likely over so fast, no one knows what went down.
Most wont be able to stand seeing themselves being wounded and some seemingly strong willed persons will cave at the sight of blood - let alone a sucking chest wound or a sliced body part. Other seemingly weak are able to stand being wounded and persevere - one just never can tell.
As for wild card and overcomming odds in WWII - I remember reading a first hand account about a German soldier being severely wounded during the retreat through Russia.
He was captured by russian forces and forced to kneel with his comrades. All were then shot in the neck or directly in the back of the head. Maybe by a Tokarev bottleneck 7.62x25, who knows - he didnt turn and ask prior to being shot in the head.
Anyway, the German woke up many hours later in the frozen wasteland amongst the cold stiff bodies of other German soldiers. He had a blinding headache and his bloody cheek was frozen solid to the ground due to subzero temps.
He assessed the situation. It turned out the projectile when fired, had travelled round the curvature of his cranium and exited. The soldier then started walking towards Germany and actually made it home. No doubt some luck and tremendous will power played a factor.
As for the whole 10mm, 40mm and then going back to the old 9mm - what a joke. Actually I kind of like the 10mm for venerable and historic reasons but evidently some couldnt handle the recoil of the 10 - nor the 40mm for that matter. Dont get me started on the 357 SIG.
There is a constant search for THE caliber and some tend to frown at for example the .38 SPL. Its a wonder law enforcement for generations made do just fine with the .38 - they must not have known it was inferior.
The .38 is one of the more underrated calibers out there.
No one can afford to try it.
I don't know about anyone else, but if I want to spend about $2 per round of ammunition, I'm going to get a Smith & Wesson .500 Magnum so the per round price is at least justified.
Here's an other thing to keep in mind;
After the 2008 Obama election and the great ammo shortage that followed for some years, most ammo was in short supply if available at all. My usual supply room, Walmart, didn't have any .22's, no .45, no .357, no .380, no 5.56 or 7.62. There was no 30-30. Didn't see any .40 either.
But there was always a supply of 9mm on the shelf, in addition to shotshells. So if you had a 12, 20, or .410 shotgun and a 9mm handgun, you had ammo.
Just something to think about.
Dude I don't think I even saw much 9mm during that time. Buckshot and slugs were hard to find in my area, all that was in plentiful stock was birdshot, and some of the larger caliber hunting rifle rounds. Finding anything else came down to being at the store at the right time, and just being damn lucky. It's reasons like that, that made me happy I had multiple calibers of firearms on hand, because it increased my chances of finding something.
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My area was strictly 20 gauge, .40 S&W, and 7.62X54R. Quite a few people in my area bought 40 S&W guns specifically for that reason during that time.
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Yup... This^
1AbominAble1
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I bought a box because it was the only hollow point that I could find in 3 different stores for my brand new (at the time) HK VP9 and I wanted something more than hardball in it when I carried it.
I thought that it was probably a gimmick and that the press was all hype but I have no doubt 4 of them would stop an attacker the same as 4 other rounds if I did my part.
After a few weeks some Critical duty showed up in stores and shortly after I found my favorite- Speer Gold Dot.
Since I wanted to know if they cycled I loaded 5 R I P rounds in a mag and let them rip ( pun intended 👍 ), to my surprise they were superbly accurate, and I mean accurate!
At 30 ft I had one ragged hole that I could've covered with a quarter. The recoil was ridiculously light since the projectile is so light and the muzzle flash was unnoticeable in the less than stellar lighting of the range.
Would I recommend it for carry, probably not, but not because it failed in any way or because some YouTubeers poo poo'd it- because its terminal performance is unknown to me and it's very expensive which makes training with it expensive.
I saved the remainder of the rounds and staggered them in a back up mag with some Critical Duty, I have faith that combo would do just fine on any deer/people sized problem I'd need a gun to fix.
That said, if you have the money and think it's a good fit for you then get them.
Even if it's just to show your buddies how damn deadly they look, it's not always about terminal performance, sometimes it's just the fun/cool factor; and that's okay.
I thought that it was probably a gimmick and that the press was all hype but I have no doubt 4 of them would stop an attacker the same as 4 other rounds if I did my part.
After a few weeks some Critical duty showed up in stores and shortly after I found my favorite- Speer Gold Dot.
Since I wanted to know if they cycled I loaded 5 R I P rounds in a mag and let them rip ( pun intended 👍 ), to my surprise they were superbly accurate, and I mean accurate!
At 30 ft I had one ragged hole that I could've covered with a quarter. The recoil was ridiculously light since the projectile is so light and the muzzle flash was unnoticeable in the less than stellar lighting of the range.
Would I recommend it for carry, probably not, but not because it failed in any way or because some YouTubeers poo poo'd it- because its terminal performance is unknown to me and it's very expensive which makes training with it expensive.
I saved the remainder of the rounds and staggered them in a back up mag with some Critical Duty, I have faith that combo would do just fine on any deer/people sized problem I'd need a gun to fix.
That said, if you have the money and think it's a good fit for you then get them.
Even if it's just to show your buddies how damn deadly they look, it's not always about terminal performance, sometimes it's just the fun/cool factor; and that's okay.