RABIES?????

[Old 3 Toes]

I have always loved animals and had most any of them you can think of as a pet at one time or another. Snakes (poisonous or non) being my strongest suit.

Well this weekend I was driving home from a Bible study with my wife when we noticed some "road kill" that didn't look to be quite dead on the side of the road. We immediatly turned around and found that it was a live gray fox that "apeared" to have been hit by a car. She seemed to be in shock and very disoriented but not too badly injured. The small fox didn't apear to be vicious or very intimidating, so I took off my over shirt, picked her up and took her home. We set her up in the garage with some food, water, and some old blankets.

The next morning she had not touched her food. I was suprised that she had no blood coming from her mouth or nose (one good sign), no scrapes or cuts, no blood in urine (another good sign), no compound fractures, and all her bones seemed okay. She just walked like her back legs were hurt. She was thin, would not eat, had trouble breathing, was slightly drooling, and was as tame as a "pet".

The more I read about gray foxes the more I got concerned with rabies or distemper. The only signs I was aware of for rabies were - nocturnal animals were seen in the day time, and the foaming at the mouth thing. Well I got on the web and found a sight on "how to spot a rabid animal". It was not long before I became very concerned. She had all the symptoms of rabies or distemper listed (wild animals oten become unusually tame or vicious, become thin, loose appitite, restless, have trouble breathing and peralisis in back legs). I realized she probably had not been hit by a car after all. Something was definatly wrong so I called animal control and they said that a rabid fox had been picked up in that same area a week ago. They showed up this morning and shot the fox about four times with a 22. They are sending the head to a lab in Raleigh to be tested for rabies and distemper (I should know the results Wed the 29th). The AC officer said the fox probably had distemper but if it was rabies we may need shots because we were exposed!

This makes me wonder if it is even worth skinning animals anymore? Anyway, thats been my weekend thru today. Any other good news?


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"Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matt. 10:16

[This message has been edited by Old 3 Toes (edited 03-28-2000).]

 

[Stryver]

I do not know the surviveability of the rabies bug, but I would use good quality hand protection ( latex gloves or better) when dealing with animals I was in any way unsure of, and make sure to keep any wounds I had from contacting any part of the animal.

With few exceptions, the most I would do for an injured wild animal is call a local shelter. In some states it is illegal, though rarely punished, for you to 'rescue' a wild animal, and unless you have some sort of training, the chances of you getting it to end up any better off than nature are slim. I probably would kill any severely injured, but still alive, animal I found or hit, that's what the cops do when they show up anyways. Here in Alaska, if you hit a large animal, you are required to report it to the authorities, and the meat is normally salvaged for charitable uses if possible. It is illegal to take any part of large animals, I do not know about small stuff, and I doubt anyone would care if you stole a bunny from the ravens.


Stryver

 

[Rex]

I believe that there is a vaccination that you can get if you trap raccoons it would be worth while asking your state trapping assocation about.

 

[Walt Welch]

Rabies vaccination is not given unless a person is in a risky profession. Examples of this are viral researchers, scientists researching bats in their caves, and, I presume, people who trap racoons.

The most common animal reservoirs in CA are foxes, bats and skunks. Our county does put out fish flavored rabies vaccine containing cubes for racoons. Walt

 

[Matt Shade]

I have horses and most of the large animal vets I have talked to are required to be vaccinated for rabies. I have a feeling the small animal vets are too, but anyway the shots must not be that hard to come by and it would give you one less thing to worry about.
I doubt that you'll run into very many rabid animals hunting, unless raccoons. As long as you get animals that seem to be healthy and act normal, and then use a proper amount of care when skinning and handling it, you shouldn't have any trouble.
BTW if you come up on a rabid animal and decide to take care of it yourself. The ones that get vicious are not easy to kill. We had a raccoon come into our yard in the middle of the afternoon and it would chase anyone who came outside. My dad had to shoot it 4 times with a 12 gauge to kill it. It took 2 shots to stop it from runnning towards him.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !

 

[MichLee]

I canno tadd much over what has already been written, the only thing I will say is that you cannot be too careful. If you get bitten, no matter how accidently or how much you think it is your fault (ie taking food from the animal) the end result is the same. The death of the animal (the only test I have heard of is a brain disection), and you possibly getting shots ( I have heard there are less than there used to be). So for both your sake and the animals (if it is not sick) take the utmost care that you can.

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Lee

LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde

 

[Jeff]

Regarding rabies - the only endotherms I have heard that can carry it are mammals. Is the virus also a threat to birds?

Most infected mammals seem to be insectivores or carnivores, though I have read something about the odd herbivore (groundhog) that may carry it. But isn't rabies a threat to larger wild and livestock herbivores as well (deer, cattle, horses, etc)?

Is transmission of rabies soley through bodily secretions? Can insects transmit it? How long can the virus survive outside a mammal's body?

I would think that a strong winter would kill off rabied weakened animals and, in time, the virus itself. Unfortunately, that is not so.
Jeff

 

[Happy Camper]

Until recently, it was thought that rabies was only tranmissible through bodily fluids. But in recent years, it has been accepted that rabies can be caught by simply breathing in a cave that is inhabited by many rabid bats.

Also note that although vaccinations shortly after being bitten by a rabid animal will save the victim, if the disease is allowed to incubate before treatment is sought, then that is the end.

If you're ever bit by an animal that cannot be verified (a bite and run), then rabies shots are seriously called for.

 

[Jeff]

One of the most frightening cases I saw reported in the newspapers was a homeowner who died from rabies. A bat had been found living in his house but apparently had transmitted the virus through some other means besides a bite. The owner apparently hadn't known the animal was there.

Guano (sp?), bat poop, might carry rabies into the air.

Speaking of rabies and bats, here is a scary story for you all.
Jeff

Address:http://www.newsday.com/ap/topnews/ap456.htm
Bats Threatening Mexico Cattle
By ALEJANDRO RUIZ, Associated Press Writer PALENQUE, Mexico (AP) -- Vampire bats preying on the cattle of southernmost Mexico have caused an outbreak of rabies that has killed thousands of cattle.
Ranchers and a veterinarian who coordinates several government animal health programs have criticized state officials for failing to act quickly to control the outbreak; state officials insists it's under control.
''The outbreak is very grave. They did not take precautionary measures and there is a delay in the distribution of vaccines by health authorities,'' said Yolanda Herrera, a veterinarian with the Mexico-U.S. Commission for the Prevention of Foot-and-Mouth Disease. She said bats should also be targeted in the caves and corrals where they live.
Candido Lopez, spokesman for the Livestock Union of the Northern Region of Chiapas, said the outbreak began early this year in the impoverished state of Chiapas, where most ranches are small. At least 2,300 cattle have died on 92 ranches in the first three months of the year, according to Gilberto Perez Guillermo, a spokesman for the regional department of livestock health.
Jesus Ugalde, leader of the Livestock Association in Palenque, one of four affected municipalities, put the number of deaths at 3,000. Perez Guillermo said the bats also have attacked 27 residents of the northern municipality of Salto de Agua, many of whom live in wooden shacks without doors. The victims were being treated by health officials to prevent them from getting rabies, he said. But the health minister for Chiapas, Humberto Cordoba, said the bats had not attacked any people.
Herrera, who conducted autopsies on some of the dead cattle, said 90 percent of the deaths were caused by rabies transmitted by vampire bats. She said rabies first appeared in central Chiapas in 1987 and has spread throughout the state as the bats migrated. However, the chief of animal health for the state Ministry of Agriculture, David Lopez, insisted the rabies outbreak was under control.
He said his agency had provided 60,000 rabies vaccines to local ranchers at a cost of about 11 cents each -- far cheaper than the 90 cents charged by private clinics.
Ugalde said that was only a tenth of the 600,000 vaccines that are needed.
''It isn't possible for the state to ignore this emergency situation and say that it is under control,'' he said. ''On the contrary, it is ... a serious public health problem.''
Rancher Pedro Lopez, who lost seven cattle to the disease on his small ranch, criticized the government for its inaction. ''We have no help from the government. The vaccines are expensive for us at private laboratories,'' said Lopez, 70. ''It's shocking,'' said Manuel Perez, a cowboy at another ranch. ''In less than a month more than 50 registered animals have died, between bulls, cows and calves... We have never faced a situation so grave.'' Francisco Coller, head of the state agency charged with eradicating the bats, said the effort was initially slowed by ranchers' failure to recognize the threat and their reluctance to vaccinate their herds. ''Now the panic has grown because of the impressive death of cattle and now the same producers who denied the existence of the bats are asking us to eradicate them,'' he said.

 

[Stryver]

On the topic of bats and rabies...

Less than one half of one percent of bats carry rabies. That's a small amount. I'd be very interested in learning who documented cases of rabies transmitted by merely breathing in a bat-cave.

As far as vampire bats, they do eat blood. They land, take a bite, and lap up the blood. They are the only bat that will bite you, and don't occur very far north at all. Most bats eat insects, and I'd rather a bat flit in front of my face than a mosquito bite me. Vampire bats tend to prefer large herbivores. They don't suck blood, they have to wait for it too pool up, so they take a while to feed, and prefer large animals who are less likely to move, or notice them. Keep screens over your windows at night, and you need not worry.

Stryver, who happens to like bats

 

[MNH]

My wife is Charge Nurse in our local ER. The After exposure shots for rabies are given in the ER here. We don't have a lot of rabies up here but it is becoming more common.

She tells me that people coming in for the shots always look unhappy on their way in, but they look REALLY unhappy on their way out.

The shots are not fun!


Mike

 

[Jeff]

I have heard that the latest series of rabies injections could be delivered into the arm, rather than the stomech. If this is true, the series you would recieve in 2000, while likely still uncomfortable, should be less of an ordeal.

Stryver - I bear no malice toward bats, raccoons or other animals that are targeted as pests or disease carriers. Actually, bats are pretty unique mammals and those breeds that clean the nightskies of insects (especially skeeters) perform an invaluable service, far as I am concerned. Still, the intrusion of rabies into a community can generate an epidemic of fear and backlash against animals (especially bats, who are already not very PC because of their habits and adaptions).

Some years back, a homeowner in my region (county outside Philadelphia, PA) was assaulted by a rabid raccoon. He told reporters afterward that he had been napping in his home when he heard what
sounded like "chuckling". Before he could investigate, a raccoon that had managed to enter the residence attacked him. I forgot the final outcome but the fellow evidently survived and the animal didn't.
Jeff

 

[Joe Talmadge]

I've done some research on viruses, and one thing I learned is that rabies is the most deadly infectious disease known, with a 100% death rate if left untreated -- that's worse than the worst forms of ebola, hiv, etc. Luckily, treatments exist today! However, as happy camper pointed out, once symptoms appear rabies is untreatable.

 

[e_utopia]

Yeah, I would suggest to everyone that they read about rabies. I remember the statement: 'those who are lucky die two weeks after syptoms appear; those who are unlucky survive a third week'. It's a nasty disease, people.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

 

[Jeff]

One stop rabies info shopping...

Rabies Homepage Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Address:http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/

 

[Walt Welch]

OK; here is the poop on rabies.

Aerosolized virus is an extremely dangerous thing. In the 'old' (duck embryo) vaccine days, some lab workers were exposed to this by accident. Despite 'adequate' antibody levels, some died.

The human diploid (tissue culture) vaccine has been out about 20 years. The shots, about half a dozen of them, are totally painless. The duck embryo vaccine would inject foreign protein into you, so you had an allergic reaction every time you got the shot, and this got worse with each injection. So you had some local pain, redness and swelling. This effect has been vastly overstated by lay persons.

This allergic rxn is NOT seen with the human diploid vaccine, which indeed can be given into the deltoid (arm). I asked one of the patients I started on the shots how they felt, after she had completed the series; she looked surprised, and said that they weren't painful at all. Telling people that the shots hurt is doing them a disservice; should they delay treatment because of fear, they may well die.

Further, the HD vaccine provides higher levels of antibodies than the duck embryo vaccine.

The way it works is that rabies has an extremely variable, but generally long incubation period (months to years). Thus, you can develop an active immunity in a person (get them to make antibodies which kill the virus) while they are incubating the disease. Normally this works quite well, but in extreme cases, like breathing the aerosolized virus, or a severe bite on the face, sometimes the disease (uniformly fatal) manifests itself before the immunity can be attained.

The administration of rabies shots is very rare. I started a course of treatment on two patients in 20 years. I continued the treatment of one patient in 20 years. He had been bitten by a pack of wild dogs in Mexico, and therapy initiated there. I have never seen the disease, nor have the vast majority of physicians.

Rabies can occur in ANY warm blooded animal. This incidentally explains my ex-wife's behavior. As it turns out, the great white shark is warm blooded.

(they really are, BTW). There was a case of a vet who was force feeding a sick cow by sticking his arm down the cow's throat. He died of rabies, having scratched himself on the cow's teeth.

The rabies virus doesn't survive long outside of the body. Further, for the bite of an animal to be contagious, the rabies vaccine must be in the animal's saliva. This is the end stage of the disease, with the rabies virus having invaded the brain. Thus, if you quarantine a dog (or other animal) that has bitten someone for 10 days, and the dog doesn't die, he didn't have rabies. Or, at least, rabies sufficiently advanced to infect the person bitten.

The old way of examining the brain was to look for something called Negri bodies in brain cells. Now, there are direct immunofluroescent tests, which are much more sensitive.

Hope this helps; Walt Welch MD

 

[Walt Welch]

Jeff; most excellent site on rabies. I suggest that everyone read it rather than the vapid meanderings of a certain old burned out ER doc's mind.

Stryver; I suggest you read the case histories of the 5 cases of rabies in humans in the USA in 1997-98. ALL the cases were found to be caused by a strain of virus found in bats. NONE of the patients, all of whom died, had reported a bite!

Of course, risk analysis suggests that 4 or 5 cases a year in the USA poses a negligable risk to your health. If I were a spelunker, however, and were clambering around over guano, I would get prophylactic immunization.

Insects, not being warm blooded, cannot carry the disease. Walt

 

[Walt Welch]

One last meandering comment; I was surprised to find out that half the rabid animals found in the USA are racoons. I hand feed the racoons around my house, some of whom have been around for 6 or 8 years. One, when she was young, was so eager to get the food, that she would occasionally nip my finger by accident. I named her 'nipper,' and just kept an eye out for her for 10 days after being bitten.

The reason for my surprise is that nearly all the rabid racoons are in the Eastern US; I live on the West coast. Walt

 

[Matt Shade]

You feed coons like their pets?

Sorry, but I just don't understand that.I have neighbors who did that and had about 30 of them coming to the house everynight. After being fed they moved on to other peoples houses and got into their trash, barns,houses,attics, and basically made a huge mess everywhere they went. All of them that came in to my barn to eat all of our cat food and **** all over are hay, ended up fertilizing our garden

But they did make a mess. Oh yeah, they ate about half of our sweet corn last year too.
Then every fall when we're taking hay and straw out of barns to sell at the race track I have the fun of dodging the damn things as they come flying like bats out of hell from inside the stacks of hay and straw.
Sorry, but if you ask me the only good coon is a dead one.
Now if you want to feed them, then let them wash it down with anti freeze, thats fine by me

Matt
From east coast, where coons have rabies.

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We got a five dollar fine for whining
We tell you before you come in
So if it ain't on your mind to have a good time
Y'all come back and see us again.- Chris LeDoux

[This message has been edited by Matt Shade (edited 04-05-2000).]

 

[Rex]

Raccoons are the majjor carrier of rabies in Pa. A year ago a horse about 5 miles from my home was found to be rabid.
Raccoons are bad news ,my wife was attacked and mauled by a pet raccoon and bears the scars on her wrist, arm ,shoulder,neck.
It appears he was working up her arm toward her face. This attack lasted about 10 seconds
and resulted in about 40 puntures and lacerations.She was with her dad and 4 brothers and numerous cousins when this animal which they had as a pet for several years went beserk.
Wild animals are not pets and should not be "tamed"