Rain Shedding Shelter Roofs

S

SkunkWerX

Joined
Jul 27, 2006
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You are in the wilderness, lost, and Rain is on it's way.
And you will have to endure a night of rain by the looks of the growing cloud cover.

I have seen numerous articles and documetaries about building shelters but they don't talk about Roof Construction, in great detail.
The mantra is "lot's of debris", should be as thick as from your hand to your elbow, that's about where it stops.

I have built enough houses, sheds, and barns to know that a steep roof sheds water better than a flatter roof. if it's pending rain, I'm making my roof steep. What is steep? In the eye of the beholder, I guess. I like using the 45° as a cut off. from 45° to 89° is the steep range. From 45° down to 0° is the shallow range. I would go for 45° at the shallowest to shed rain, up to about 60° up to 75° as closer to optimum.

First item to think about:
1. If it's going to rain, consider the pitch of your roof. Steeper sheds water better. Think of a teepee, Nice steep walls.

When you lay roofing shingles, you overlap, starting at the bottom and working up.
This is another thing I don't see mentioned much. Also consider the foilage being used. How does water run off of an evergreen branch? Rain water moves toward the tips of the bough and drips off.

2. For best rain shedding, start placing your natural material at the low end, and then work your way UP, always with generous overlapping. 1/2 Lapping is a good rule of thumb. Your first Row is placed at the bottom, your second Row, should overlap your first row by Half of it's length.
When placing evergreen boughs, remember, "TIP Side Down" , as this is the natural way that evergreens shed rain water. If you were using tall grass stalks or reeds, they shed water from tip to base, so place them to shed water as they would in nature.

Unlike a standard shingled roof, once you work your way to the top/ridge of your wilderness structure, you then start again, same theory, from bottom to top.

Don't dismiss Tall grass and reeds as a roof source. Thatched roofs have been shedding water for a thousand years. The down side is that you need a lot of it.

You can't always plan on being in an evergreen forest, so, keep in mind other sources. Thatch , sod , dry leaves , sticks, can all be used to put a roof over your head.

Steep sheds rain. Low and thick retains heat.

If you have the time, a little planning, and then a bit of careful execution can mean the difference between staying dry, or being dripped on all night long, or even worse, a complete failure of your roof structure.
 
I've seen birch bark used as 'shingles' effectively. I imagine other types could be used as well.
 
If you were using tall grass stalks or reeds, they shed water from tip to base, so place them to shed water as they would in nature.
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Some plants don't shed water as much as they trap water. Many grasses have leaves that function to trap water from tip to base and reversing this is the only way to make them shed.
 
ras said:
Some plants don't shed water as much as they trap water. Many grasses have leaves that function to trap water from tip to base and reversing this is the only way to make them shed.
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I'm neither a botanist nor a carpenter, but I have to agree with ras on that one. Other than that, I'm with you 100%. I'm beginning to wonder if my pops would think I'm nuts, if I asked him to let me build a practice shelter in his back yard/swamp... what the hell, he thinks I'm crazy already :D
 
I personally was tought o build from the bottom up. And doing more of my wilderness es stuff in the winter, snow with limbs are the best, and of course while addind snow after the braches, you have to work your way up. Although I enjoy making things from scrath outside, one thing I have found is that many times out of ten, Your shelter has been made for you in the winter ( to an extent ). Under-neath a pine tree is the best place to start, than adding more branches and snow, and You can create one, nice,warm and dry shelter.
 
Great post, Skunk.

The books are weak on theory. The "why" would help folks understand the "how."

Almost all the shelters I see pictured here and at other forums fall into the "Creates Dappeled Shade" category -- way too thin and with no organization to carry water away from the area (hopefulyl) being protected.

To get something that keeps rain out, you need considerable effort/time. That dictates starting the task a realistic period of time before you need the shelter.

A gent in another forum showed his shelter and was repeatedly praised. The only concern implied was that the structure was not strong enough. Not wanting to be rude, I simply asked if its single, loose layer of evergreen branches actually kept out snow or rain. He answered that he did not know. The reality was, "No way." It would have provided some shade at best.

The drop runs down a needle or branch until it reaches the end, then drops to the next layer -- if it's there. Enough layers, and the drop reaches the ground "outside." Not enough layers and it falls on you.

All a very good reason to try to have a tarp or tarp substitute with you at all times.

Ed: "Try not. Do or do not."
 
i like to carry a cheap disposable painters drop cloth, they are hard to open but dont weigh much and will give you a waterproof roof over your shelter if you place it between layers of roofing material, i have only built a couple of shelters, but i keep the roof angle at about 60 degrees to help with the run off problem.

alex
 
Tarps, panchos and plastic are certainly the way to go, but, on the survival side of things, people find themselves without such "luxuries" quite often.

I agree with TL, if it's got to shed rain, you will need time, and need to start earlier in the day, as it could take several hours to construct a rain proof, wind proof shelter.

Stopping an hour or so before night fall doesn't leave enough time for all of the things that need to be done, such as gather fire wood, make a fire, gather building material, and do the shelter constuction.

The drop runs down a needle or branch until it reaches the end, then drops to the next layer -- if it's there. Enough layers, and the drop reaches the ground "outside." Not enough layers and it falls on you. ....exactly!

It's raining tonight, I'm gald I don't have to sleep out there.
I did think about it today, as I was in the woods, cutting a dead locust tree off a trail, which had fallen a few days ago.

Here is what I saw as I looked around:
Hardwood trees, no evergreens. Plenty of dead sticks, leaves, maybe some bark could be pulled off of some dead fall. In a clearing there is a lot of "elephant" grass, it could be cut and used as thatch.

I would try to make the shelter on the leeward side of a big tree in order to stave off any driving rain. Wind is out of the East, and will surely swing NorEast later, so West, SouthWest would be the side of the tree I'd build on.

I think I would make "roof rafters" of dead sticks, place them at a 60° angle or greater and close together. Then I would try some of the thatch.
Over that , a good thick layer of dry leaves, then another layers of sticks and thatch.

I know I would be looking at a 4 hour build time, easily. But being soaken wet is sure way to get hypothermia and possibly die. It is in the 40's now, dipping into the upper 30's tonight.
A Cold Rain...man , it's the worst.
 
Its been raining here or 2 days, temps in the high 30's. This afternoon the rain turned to snow as the temps dropped to around 30 and the wind gusting up to 25mph. I thought it would be a good day to go out and practice fire and shelter.

Everything was completely soaked. Standing dead wood up to an inch thick was wet to the core. Any debris for a shelter was either completely soaked or covered in a quarter inch of ice and snow. Think snowcone consistency.

I ended up finding a cedar with an inch thick dead branch that I was able to shave down to get tinder and small kindling. I had originally planned on using only my magnesium block firestarter but there was just far too much wet snow blowing around. After an hour of mag shavings blowing around and small sputtering fires it was Duct tape and bic to the rescue.

I seriously hope that I never get stuck out unprepared in conditions like we are having here today.

I guess my only option today would have been harvesting large amounts of cedar boughs, I wonder though if my body heat inside the debris shelter would have melted the ice crusted onto the boughs and soaked me. I guess the steep roof would help for moisture running down the inside of the shelter as well. I didn't have the plums to try staying out tonight :(

A space blanket, or garbage bag could seriously Mean the difference between life and death on a day like today. I'm gonna pick up a couple more AMK heatsheet doubles this week and stash em everywhere.
 
Good post Skunk.
Good input TL.
Hope I never have to put it to use in an emergency, but good info.
 
I make this kind of shelter maybe once a year so I'm not exactly offering sage advice here. I try to add some sort of bark starting at the very top, as much as the shelter will hold up. Then I plan to get wet to some degree. My son and I will probably make a shelter like this this week if I feel better. I'm fighting off the last of a winter cold.
 
Tiros, you da man! You went out in it, and gave it a good try, you are better prepared just by knowing how difficult it can be in bad weather.
I did the same today, warmer here, with drizzle, but, getting fire going when everything is soaked is no picnic. I wore my pancho, kept me dry.

2dogs hope ya feel better!
My daughter had a winter cold/flu , it lingered for a week or more. We thought we were gonna have to take her for lab tests if she didn't get well soon.
 
WHERE you put the shelter is just as important as how you build it! Once the water hits the ground, hopefully on the outside of the roof, it has to go somewhere. That nice moss-filled depression that looked like a GREAT place to sit out the storm quickly becomes a cold bathtub once the rain runs in! :grumpy:

If the center of your shelter is a small mound with ground sloping away from the roof, you're golden!

I'll second, third, and fourth the suggestions to try and have a poncho or tarp with you. That saves you a TON of work in building a dry roof! I have those $1 thin ponchos rattling around in every pack, tacklebox, vehicle I own. Thousands of uses...:D

just my $.02
 
Thomas Linton said:
Just don't poke holes in the $1.00 poncho! :eek:
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Yeah! They're a last resort kinda thing, good to have around. I've used 'em more for boot liners, wound covers, um... RAIN PONCHOS:D but did build a shelter with one just for giggles: Frame, layer of leaves/grass, poncho, more grass/leaves, heavy junk to keep it all from blowing away. It's a nice way to go so you don't have to pay as close attention to the layering! Dry=Good!

Oh, yeah, they melt really quick too!!!!
 
I agree with carrying a "painter's tarp" in your wilderness kit or survival kit. The one I use in MY KIT is a half mil (0.0005" thick) painter's tarp. The reason for using this extremely thin material is that a 9' x 12' section of this stuff rolls up to about the size of my thumb! One has to be careful not to tear it, but beyond that it's just as waterproof as any other tarp. A simple tarp shelter shouldn't take you more than about 5 minutes to erect (and very little of your precious energy).

I also agree that it either takes a LOT of natural materials or a LOT of time to make a truly waterproof shelter from natural materials. If you're lost and the weather is rolling in, time is what you DON'T have. You can die from exposure in a couple hours or less, particularly if you're wet. Having the means to quickly erect a shelter, and quickly make fire can very well mean the difference between life and death.

A good survival kit will have both of these, and should be on your person EVERY time you head into wilderness areas. A good survival kit recognizes that shelter and fire are priorities. Remember, you can go for days without water and weeks without food, but the elements will kill you right quick!

If you absolutely have no kit, and need a shelter made from natural materials, a DUGOUT SHELTER is usually the simplest.

-M40-
 
That dugout shelter looks like, even with a tarp for the roof, you need to be very clever about slopes and angles to avoid a bath. Seems like the top end would be the area of special concern. Maybe dig a well or a diversion channel to catch the flow that is coming towards the little dam he shows. The bottom, as shown, looks safer.
 
A basic lean-to under a tree is my choice. I've curled up under a big evergreen to keep dry. Even if you don't have a fire, keeping the wind off and staying dry is the thing.

Any time I go out, I have the essentials with me. I keep kits in our cars too. Everyone who goes off pavement should know how to build basic shelters, but having a gabage bag, space blanket, a little extra clothing, and a crackling fire will get you through a long, cold, wet night in relative comfort. A pound of gear will keep you alive. A couple pounds of gear will make you almost comfortable. Five pounds of gear will keep you alive and comfortable in just about any conditions.

I use a high tech poncho called a Gatewood Cape for my main shelter while camping, let alone survival. It weighs just 11 ounces and doubles as my rain gear:

GC_Closed.jpg
 
I've been pretty successful at staying dry by creating the roof as you describe, Skunkwerx. Begin layering the pine boughs starting from the ground and working up -- weaving them into place as you go. They do an excellent job of deflecting the water this way, IMO and are pretty resistant to high winds. But as a previous poster mentioned...keeping your shelter out of a depression is important as well. :thumbup:
 
Good Ideas. I have not yet had to make a water resistant shelter, but I do have some shelter building experience from a survival school I attended in Washington State.

Several obvious necessities to survival stand out clearly as I look back to that experience. These may seem like a big duh! to many of you, but in the literature these are often just assumed, and therefore the armchair survivalist may not realize how difficult shelter building can be. There is a sort of an independant frontier wildman aura built up around survival shelters (at least in the books) that can mislead the unprepared.

First thing is excellent physical shape needed for bending, stretching, carrying, moving very quickly non-stop for several hours, roaming over increasingly larger areas searching for materials. This is exhausting. :eek:

A good sense of direction.

A heavy, very sharp blade for hours of wacking at the trees.

A strong shelter framework that will not fall apart in the wind that may accompany the rain.

Size of the shelter. Smaller is warmer. Body heat good. Rain and wind cold.

And what will the floor be made of? How about a mylar space blanket? They're cheap, light, warm, and can also be used as a blanket, though they can be clammy wet because they do not breath.

Anyway, a few thoughts from a new guy.

Great thread.

John

Huemoz (WAY-MOW) is a beautiful, small village in the Swiss Alps just above the town of Montreaux on Lake Geneva. During my cold war stint with the US Army in West Germany, I was able to spend a month of leave time in this place. Once in a lifetime, eh?
 
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