Rambles, curiosity, and opinions wanted :)

[quattromori]

Hi folks,
here again. After shipping my Buck 303 to our fellow member uchinanchukg, I was thinking about a couple knives that kinda caught my attention lately (don't ask me why: I just don't know - although I might blame a certain lucky humourous female member of this subforum ).
One is the Queen made S&M teardrop jack (picture borrowed from Ed's giveaway thread):

and the other one is a less common version of GEC's #73:

Now, I've heard a few opinions about the Queen / S&M knife. Basically, it seems that, apart from the edge issues, people tend to like it, but I'd like to hear more. As for the GEC, it seems this version was produced in 2009 and 2011 (I think), but I never saw one. And I assume someone here owns one. So opinions are welcome as well. Oh, and pictures, of course

Fausto

 

[Will Power]

Fausto, I've seen that GEC 73 with a pen-blade in something called Hemlock Bone (don't try drinking that....) I believe Black Mamba (Jeff) has shown one of these. Interesting jigging pattern. It must be a hefty knife as the 73 stainless I have with Drop-point & Skinner blades is quite a hunk.

Don't know about the S&M Jack but the single blade Heritage I have in Ebony is a very decent knife. Good fit on mine, was bluntish and the grinds poor but being carbon it soon got into shape. So these Heritage are knives I could recommend.

Since you like Jacks and prefer a stainless, then think about a Queen Cutlery No.2 Jack, D2 blades and you can get these in Bird's Eye Maple, as I seem to recall you don't fancy jigged bone overmuch. Don't think they've been released in Zebra Wood though. Great compact knife and neatly turned out.

Thanks, Will

 

[quattromori]

Will,
thank you for your answers.
As for the GEC, on their website this very knife is shown in two variants: one with both nicks on the mark side, and one with nicks on opposite sides. I never really loved the spey blade as secondary, but somehow it does sound like a good option as main blade, paired with a pen secondary. Go figure.
As for the Queen, thank you for your suggestion. Yes, I prefer stainless knives but that's not an absolute must for me. So, thank you for throwing another knife into my visual field

Fausto

 

[pertinux]

Hi folks,
here again. After shipping my Buck 303 to our fellow member uchinanchukg, I was thinking about a couple knives that kinda caught my attention lately (don't ask me why: I just don't know - although I might blame a certain lucky humourous female member of this subforum ).

Wait, what?

One is the Queen made S&M teardrop jack (picture borrowed from Ed's giveaway thread):

Fausto,

The above knife is one that presses just about every button for me aesthetically, but which suffers from Queen's quality control issues (or contentment with mediocrity?), at least in its most recent, pre-Daniels incarnation. Maybe Queen can now get this one Right?

In its current iteration, I've seen, and wanted, and written of this knife before:

Ahhhh.

So close, and yet so far-- at least for me.

I love everything about the form factor of this knife; it's the "handful of ebony" I've been hankering for.

However, I've held off based on some of the reviews and impressions of current Queen cutlery and this pattern/edition in particular, both posted here and relayed to me privately (gaps in the springs, weak snap, etc.). I was finally able to see one in person last week, and my reservations were sadly confirmed. As much as I wanted to (still) want the knife, it had too many issues. At least, it did/does for me, at its current price point. But boy howdy, did it feel good in hand, closed or open. It was all those in-between parts that were problematic.

But I mean, just look at it (Trand's photograph):

Sigh.

~ P.

 

[Jack Black]

That's a lovely pattern, a shame about Queen's QC issues (or "contentment with mediocrity" as P sagely puts it). Sort of makes you feel empty when that happens with a knife you like the look of so much otherwise

 

[pertinux]

Maybe I could have some one open and close it for me, then hand it back? Because it was grand once open or closed.

(At half the price, I would likely be, dare I say it, far less "picky." But I wouldn't balk at its cost if it didn't have gaps and had walk and talk instead of lift, don't let go, hold on to the blade and keep pulling up, it'll get there, smoosh it all the way closed....)

~ P.

 

[TLARbb]

Well now, I am surprised a bit. I honestly don't remember too much about that particular 2 blade jack (last year's Christmas Eve gift), but I am carrying the larger single blade rosewood model on wW (like tomorrow) and it is a perfectly good knife. But it is not as good as the Boy's knife I received from GEC today. I do like it a lot. I have the 2 blade jack from the series in "stag" which is just jigged bone, but I couldn't put my hands on it tonight. I wonder where it might be.

Anyway, I don't think there is any question that GEC is building a better knife than Queen at this point.

I did pick up the ebony single blade and look at it tonight. It is, I think, a bit better than the rosewood I am carrying. I chose to carry the rosewood version because I felt the ebony is a bit more "in demand" should I decide to sell one or give one away (sometimes that happens) and I just like the rosewood better.

I also have two of those new fangled old fashioned TC Barlows headed my way. Can't let P. get too far ahead of me... Based on the Boy's knife, I know I'll be thrilled with them.

Ed J

 

[2Dead]

I believe the Tidioutes have the pen in the front while the Northfields have it on the pile side. The pen blade and backspring are thinner than on the main blades so it is slightly lighter and thinner overall. Unfortunately, the pen is a little harder to get out than the main blade. You have to be careful you don't cut yourself at the half stop position. I didn't use mine too much so perhaps that would change with use. The last one at the bottom is one GEC made for Cripple Creek. These were made with 420 steel. The pen blade and back spring are thinner than on the main blades so it is slightly lighter and thinner overall. The snakewood #73 was traded some time ago.

 

[kamagong]

No production company makes a perfect, or even near perfect, slipjoint. They all have flaws of some sort. As an illustration, let's take a look at two of my favorite slips, a Northfield Scout and a Schatt & Morgan Heritage Jack. Both knives are of recent vintage, built in 2011.

The S&M jack is one of the of ebony single blades. This knife is a beauty, but I won't lie, it has issues. There is a good sized gap between one of the liners and the backspring. Nothing significant, but it's definitely something you guys would notice. The spring isn't as stout as I like, and the action was pretty gritty upon receipt. Perhaps the biggest problem was the butterknife edge it came with. But after a good cleaning and sharpening session, the blade cuts effortlessly and walks and talks with authority, sans the original roughness.

The Northfield Scout on the other hand is one that most here are probably familiar with. It is a stunner, reminiscent of the Remington 1173 upon which it is based. Quality is definitely on the upper end of what you find with production knives. But it too has its flaws. The blade stock IMO is a little thin for a knife of this size. While well ground, it was bit overbuffed and the swedging isn't as crisp as it should have been. Annoyingly the blade developed play after I cleared out the factory grit and I had to send it back to get tuned up. But perhaps the biggest issue for me is the gaps that have developed between the stag covers and the bolsters. It happened with both covers and the gaps are now big enough to fit in a sheet of a Toys 'R Us brochure. (I can't do that with the gap in the S&M jack.) I don't think this is a problem with the local climate as I have a few stag handled knives and this has never happened except for one other, also a Northfield. I'm now inclined to think that GEC inadequately dries out their stag prior to hafting.

Before anyone thinks I'm complaining let me mention that I am enamored with this knife. It's one of my most carried knives, I wouldn't use it as often as I do if I wasn't satisfied with its quality. I'm not blind to its imperfections though, and this knife has them like any other. That's the thing about production slipjoints -- we can nitpick them to death. The trick is to find what you can and can't live with, then spend your money accordingly.

- Christian

 

[quattromori]

Thanks for your answers guys.
Christian, I do agree with you; a certain degree of "imperfection" is natural; sometimes it gets beyond the point of what I like or not like, and therefore affects its pocket carry.
As for the Queen / S&M, I never handled a Queen made knife, so that's why I asked for opinions; I've read alot of feedbacks on their edge issues, but I'm not sure that would prevent me from buying a knife, and the teardrop jack looks good.
As for the GEC: I remembered Trand posting pictures of this knife, and the Cripple Creek version as well. I'm quite scared by the stiffness of the backsprings, but time will tell
Ed, I have my GEC boys knife (two bladed ebony version) on its way too, and I know I'm going to like it alot. I think the #15 is the reason why the S&M caught my eye again: similar size, two bladed jack, both nicks on the same side, ebony handles...all things that I like alot in a slipjoint, and search for.
Thanks for the inputs and pictures

Fausto

 

[Jack Black]

Perhaps the biggest problem was the butterknife edge it came with.

It always amazes me how many knives, irrespective of price range (I've even had customs like this) are sold blunt. It's generally the easiest thing to put right, but bearing in mind that (generally speaking) the primary purpose of a knife is cutting, you'd think that a bit more care and attention would be paid to it.

 

[neeman]

I sort of shrug my shoulders and ask what do folk want from a knife
(apart from sharp out the box...)

The Schatt & Morgan Heritage Jack is its standard #69 pattern
I got the Antique Bone, and I found the quality to be good and the bone lovely
Did the normal resharpening and it holds a great edge
A solid worker


I tweeked the blade position to be further back by filing the tang
But that is how I like my knives

And yes GEC builds a better knife
But price point of Queen is much less

 

[quattromori]

Since I opened this thread, I should probably clear one thing.
I never wanted to make any comparison between the two knives I asked about. In no way they're opposed to each other (not on my mind, at least). It's just two patterns that tickled my spirit and I was curious to know what you folks think about them, and instead of opening two threads I put both on the same one.
Sharpness out of the box is not really going to stop me or push me on any knife (although I assume that a new knife should come sharp, but that's another matter). I'm more interested in your opinions about the general quality and features of these two knives. Also, I don't really think that a Queen is a Queen and a GEC is a GEC. Different patterns, made at different times, might just be different even in quality, W&T, F&F, and so on. Obviously, any company retains its strong and weak points, and general quality level, but I'm not interested in this topic.
Oh, and now that Will mentioned it, I will add to the conversation even the Queen #2 jack. Just to keep the conversation straight, as I always do

Fausto

 

[pertinux]

Before anyone thinks I'm complaining let me mention that I am enamored with this knife. It's one of my most carried knives, I wouldn't use it as often as I do if I wasn't satisfied with its quality. I'm not blind to its imperfections though, and this knife has them like any other. That's the thing about production slipjoints -- we can nitpick them to death. The trick is to find what you can and can't live with, then spend your money accordingly.

Agreed!

...I know my impressions of the S&M Jack I was able to handle were deeply influenced by its costing $160 (list); even though I know of other sources from which it is less expensive, I evaluated it through the lens of the price at hand. As 'twere.

~ P.

 

[kamagong]

Agreed!

...I know my impressions of the S&M Jack I was able to handle were deeply influenced by its costing $160 (list); even though I know of other sources from which it is less expensive, I evaluated it through the lens of the price at hand. As 'twere.

~ P.

Way too much Sarah. Alas, it's a non-issue these days. Now that GEC has come out with its Pertinux-approved barlow, the choice is a no-brainer. If I were in the market for an ebony handled jack, I'd get one of those.

Image by pertinux

Too bad they didn't come out a month ago.

- Christian

 

[pertinux]

Way too much Sarah. Alas, it's a non-issue these days. Now that GEC has come out with its Pertinux-approved barlow, the choice is a no-brainer. If I were in the market for an ebony handled jack, I'd get one of those.

Image by pertinux

Too bad they didn't come out a month ago.

- Christian

Whoa, someone gots ivy climbing into the house!


Oh, wait....


Yes, I agree that GEC's new #15s are something special, both the barlows and what I've seen of the Boys Knives. However, they're also a scant 3.5" (bigger than the Queen/S&M) and do not have its teardrop lines. The form factor of the Heritage Jack, including its barehead with the federal(?) shield, most definitely place it squarely in the category of Swoony.

I believe that I've made it clear that I'm head-over-heels for the new barlow (and look forward to seeing the Boys Knife), but that doesn't mean that this one lil' Queen doesn't still beckon. When Elliott ran his most recent giveaway, my imagination surprisingly led me back to this very Queen, even with others' input that, given my reservations, it was probably best to steer clear-- and my very own in-person experiences(!).

As the Tray 'o Happiness now burgeons and threatens to overflow, I'm determined to let the #15(s) be "enough."

I'd still love to see Queen get their Jacks right, however. They're so close.

~ P.

 

[quattromori]

I believe that I've made it clear that I'm head-over-heels for the new barlow

Oh really? I hadn't noticed...
I'm not a Barlow fan myself, but I'm really happy of the TC #15 enthusiasm, cause I assume I will get the same quality and feelings from my upcoming #15 boys knife (in ebony, of course).
Don't know why (but I know many of you folks understand me), but the fact I'm waiting for a knife these days makes me look for more. Chaces are, I'm not going to buy another knife that soon, but I can't keep my mind wondering, and I always enjoy hearing your opinions on knives

Fausto

 

[black mamba]

Right you are, Will, I have the whole collection of the ones from '08 and '09 with both nicks on the mark side.

From left to right: Hemlock Green, Lemon Zest, Burnt Arrowhead, Cocobolo, Mexican Bocote, and Blue Denim Acrylic

I have carried both the Cocobolo and the Hemlock. These are sturdy knives with powerful half-stops, pulls from 7-8. As always, the GEC 1095 steel is great and takes a keen edge. I like the sowbelly/swimsuit shield on the Hemlock, but the Coco on my knife is as pretty as any I've ever seen. Really a nice pattern if you like stout pulls and springs. They pack a lot of blade into a 3-3/4" package.

 

[quattromori]

Jeff,
thank you for your pictures. The Hemlock green looks great
I kinda suspected that these knives had stiff springs and half stops, which somehow pushes me a bit away from them. Yet, the blade combination still appeals to me, and is pretty unique (at least from what I've seen)

Fausto

 

[kamagong]

...do not have its teardrop lines.

Is the Heritage Jack a teardrop? When I think of teardrop I think of something along the lines of this knife.

Image by waynorth

The Heritage series knife that Fausto is eyeing on the other hand shares the same frame as this harness jack.

Image by waynorth

- Christian