Randal Graham

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Lee Bray

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Aug 2, 2006
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I paid Randal Graham US$1800 by paypal for a custom knife by him in May, 2006.
I still have yet to receive it.

He dropped out of contact for a long time and moved to Canada.
I received an email from him 3 months ago saying he would try to put things right but since then, nothing, and no response to any emails asking for an update.

It should be said that the last email from him was only after he was tracked down to My.space.com and messaged there, saying that the relevant authorities would be contacted.

As far as I know, there are 4-5 other individuals out of pocket from the same smith and the same time period.

I am a Brit living in Hong Kong. The deal was made through his website whilst he was in the US but has now moved to Canada. Payment via paypal, though too much time has elapsed for them to pursue the case.

Is there anything I can do to get my cash back?
Which authorities do I contact or should I give this up as a very, very expensive lesson learned?
 
There are 2 listing for "Randal Graham" with the spelling you provided living in Calgary, Alberta. (403) 288-1269 and (403) 288-3896. I have no idea if this is the same guy or not and I hope I haven't broken any forum protocol by posting this info here. If I have I apologize and will take whatever lumjps I have coming to me I guess. I hope this helps.

-Tye
 
Thanks for the help, everyone, and thanks to the forum for allowing this type of thread to be posted.

I have been contacted by Randal and he explained his side of the story.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt and will again wait for him to make good on the deal.
I'd ask that he is not held to account by this since his reputation prior to this was exemplary.

I will update this thread at a later date to report whether things have gone satisfactorily or not.

Thanks again.
 
Lee, welcome to BF. Sorry to hear about the difficulty but hope this will get sorted out soon.
 
Lee Bray said:
Thanks for the help, everyone, and thanks to the forum for allowing this type of thread to be posted.

I have been contacted by Randal and he explained his side of the story.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt and will again wait for him to make good on the deal.
I'd ask that he is not held to account by this since his reputation prior to this was exemplary.

I will update this thread at a later date to report whether things have gone satisfactorily or not.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Sorry, that isn't true, and shining example of your ignorance of this maker....

His health was failing around 2000 or so, he blamed Canada's medical system. He was making Japanese styled blades, and the bottom line is that he got bailed out by Albion Armorers, and went to work for them at some point.

One of my teachers in JSA had a pre-paid piece on order, and got the runaround for over a year. Hope your story has a less stressful ending.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Sadly it's been my experience in these sorts of deals that a customer should NEVER pay up front in total, and in fact a customer should never pay more of a deposit then they can afford to lose. If a swordsmith asks for the entire payment up front it's time to move on to someone else. If you pay them the entire amount the complete control of the project is entirely in their hands and their incentive to get your project done has been diminished. I've seen various smiths of "high repute" go by the wayside over the years.

I wish I had some good advice on how to extricate yourself from your situation, but truthfully it is very difficult to ever recover any money in these sorts of situations especially when it is an international order. The best thing to do is collect as much information as you can about the guy's whereabouts and then contact his local law enforcement authorities. That's the only thing that I've ever seen actually work other then what you are doing right now, putting pressure on his through publicity on the forums. If you have not done so I would also put the word out over at www.swordforum.com and www.myarmoury.com as well. Caveat emptor.
 
Triton said:
Sadly it's been my experience in these sorts of deals that a customer should NEVER pay up front in total, and in fact a customer should never pay more of a deposit then they can afford to lose. If a swordsmith asks for the entire payment up front it's time to move on to someone else. If you pay them the entire amount the complete control of the project is entirely in their hands and their incentive to get your project done has been diminished. I've seen various smiths of "high repute" go by the wayside over the years.

I wish I had some good advice on how to extricate yourself from your situation, but truthfully it is very difficult to ever recover any money in these sorts of situations especially when it is an international order. The best thing to do is collect as much information as you can about the guy's whereabouts and then contact his local law enforcement authorities. That's the only thing that I've ever seen actually work other then what you are doing right now, putting pressure on his through publicity on the forums. If you have not done so I would also put the word out over at www.swordforum.com and www.myarmoury.com as well. Caveat emptor.
Click to expand...

Good advice in general.

Good luck at Swordforum though. They do not usually allow this kind of post, and if the (alleged) scammer complains about the post, Swordforum rolls over like a kicked dog.
 
Good advice.

I already wrote to the owners of most of the blade related forums and none of them want to read this sort of thing. That's why I gave my thanks to this forum initially. It's the only fora where I've been able to say my piece and receive any advice.

It's a big shame because Swordforum is where I got the recommendations for this smith from initially. Now, years later, I find out that he was already known for this behaviour.
If this info had been readily available and 'common knowledge' I would not have been so trusting. You can gush as much as you want about a smith at SFI but woe betide the poster of bad tidings.
 
I can't say that I particularly disagree with some of the sentiments above and will leave it at that in the interests of not starting cross forum conflicts, something that the admin over here doesn't take to kindly to.

In general I will also say that it's often hard for people to believe that someone who was previously touted as one of the good guys has gone bad, and it's hard for site admins to want to take on the risk of a lawsuit over a site that they are essentially providing (in many cases) for free.

This situation REALLY stinks Lee, I hope that you have a happy resolution but am not terribly hopeful. One thing I think you are doing right is trying to get the word out there so someone else isn't taken in.
 
No one that I have contacted has any idea how to get in touch with Randal. He seems to have consciously made an effort to remove himself from the knife community.
 
I've liked his stuff every time I've seen it - Good luck and thanks for the heads up, Lee.
 
Lee Bray said:
Good advice.

If this info had been readily available and 'common knowledge' I would not have been so trusting. You can gush as much as you want about a smith at SFI but woe betide the poster of bad tidings.
Click to expand...

It becomes problematic, Lee, because at what point are you "informing the public of past issues" that can also be perceived as "trying to keep a man from digging himself out of a hole"?

I speak very plainly about experiences with makers here on BladeForums, but only MY OWN experiences, and direct experiences at that....at least as far as volunteering information....had you posted a question about the maker before the transaction, I would have told you what I know, either here or privately, as I did post-transaction.

I truly hope it works out for you, and all I can say going forward is that you should not let this experience color your entire judgement about this community....stay with it, you will reap much more favorably.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
If you paid paypal by credit card you may be able to get a chargeback if it all falls through.
I've never done one, but I know they exist and a lot of people have not heard of them.
But like paypal buyer protection the 2 year difference in payment and reporting the problem might make it really hard even if chargeback would have other wise been an option.
Still for that sort of coin, I'd be enquiring with my card company.
Good luck either way.
 
Good luck, Lee!

My dealings with Randal were a lot simpler - turning another maker's blade into bainite :rolleyes: - so my delay was only a few months.
 
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