Randall #1 or #2?

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Mar 26, 2002
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For a pure,no kidding holy crap I'm in the middle of something bad, fighting knife....The Randall #1 or Randall #2? I have had Randalls for years, a model #1 was always my "I might actually need to defend myself with this knife" Knife. The Randall #14 is my go out in the woods and use the heck out of it knife. Recently, I was reading through Kill or Be Killed again. The whole idea of a good double edged fighting knife struck me. It does seem to make sense. A well designed double edged would slash as well as most single edged, The double edge would certainly pierce better. Just curious how others feel. (I have one of each, you won't hurt my feelings either way and I'm not locked into one idea or the other) Remeber though...we are talking about a pure fighting knife, no prying, chopping firewood etc...
 
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One of each, one in my left hand, and in my right. :D ;)

For a knife to do nothing but kill somebody with? The model 2 probably.
Long blade... double edged... good looking grip, should be comfortable (never handled one)... thrust/stab well... slash well if you had to.
 
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If all goes according to plan...that other hand will have an HK-P7M8 in it rather than another knife!!!!! But, your point is well taken!
 
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I like the No 1. But thats my choice, carried one for years.
Your other plan is the best, let your opponent bring a knife to a gun fight.
 

Ken Cox

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The 13 inch #2 with an 8 inch blade will slash well enough and perhaps better than most single-edged knives.
More importantly, it will draw cut with the reverse edge, which means it will cut in any direction; up between the legs; up into the armpit from either the back or the front; in either direction across the abdomen; and it will back-cut with the entire edge and not just with the clip.
Furthermore, the puncture wound channel will bleed on both sides.

If somone finds this irrelevant or shameful, then consider that the double-edged knife will cut twice as much of "whatever" in a survival situation before it needs sharpening.

I do not see the dagger as inherently weak.
It maintains its 1/4 inch thickness for most of its length, and made out of properly heat-treated O1 steel it will take astounding abuse.

Gene Osborn (www.centercross.com) made me a full-tang dagger/short-sword to #2 proportions out of BG-42.
This knife will hack, slash, parry and thrust.
I see it as an absolutely do-everything knife.

Send me in harm's way or into a survival situation and put a #1 and a #2 on the table.
I will pick up the #2 and consider myself optimally equipped for whatever might come my way.
 
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Model 1 with the O-1 blade all the way.I just love the looks of that knife and the sharpened top edge would work on a back cut.
 
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Feb 5, 2002
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Go with a 1, 15, 14 or 18 or even a 12-8 if I'm looking for flexibility....if I absolutely knew upon leaving home that a knife fight was inevitable..(I'd stay home)...then I'd take one of the large Arkansas toothpicks by Randall....

Or, a 18-7" mounted on the end of a Byrd Spear would be even better...I call that "stand-off" distance....good to have when the bad guy has a nice in his hand..:D
 
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Mar 23, 2000
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Both the No.1 and No.2 will do the job. Historically, the dagger has been THE fighting knife. If you like daggers the No.2 is a wonderful example.
 
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The #1 is sharpened on the swag making it
just as good as the #2 for piercing. The #2
seems a little light for slashing. Both will do the job but I would prefer a #1.

Ray Smith
 

Ken Cox

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We use the same words with different meanings.
I would like to distinguish between slashing and hacking, or chopping.

The #1 has an unsharpened spine which increases the mass of the blade and thereby its momentum.
The #1 hacks or chops better than the #2 because of its increased momentum.
However, the same mass which creates momentum also creates inertia, meaning the #1 does not change directions as quickly as the #2.
Yes, the metal removed in the clip of all bowie types of knives, the #1 included, lightens the tip and restores some of the quickness of the blade lost to the thick unsharpened spine, but not all of it.

I tend to entertain the speculation that Jim Bowie might have held his knife edge-up, with the clip down.
This allowed him to use the clip in a hacking movement with great force, the unsharpened spine as a club, and the sharpened upper edge for the reverse draw cut.
An edge-up grip makes much better use of all of the sharpened edges and the point than does our modern conventional way of holding a clip-point fighting-knife with its edge down, because edge-up preserves both the reverse draw cut and the forward hack or chop; however, it also sacrifices the forward draw cut.

The double-edged fighting dagger, and by that I mean a #2 with an 8" blade, will slash forwards and backwards, and it will draw cut forward and backwards (the Arkansas Toothpick, which has some of the form of a double edged dagger but lacks it fullness, will not draw cut as well as the #2).
Because of the mass removed from the spine in order to sharpen the second edge, the double-edged dagger loses a significant amount of momentum in the hack but it also loses the same amount of inertia; a loss of inertia which allows it greater acceleration and quickness when it comes to changing directions.
The double-edged dagger will still do a whip-cut, although not with the force of a #1.
More importantly the #2 will slash with great effectiveness when applied with a strong wrist and a coordinated movement of the shoulder and upper and lower arm.
Additionally, the double-edged dagger resolves both the wrist grab and the question of whether to hold the knife edge-in or edge-out when using the reverse grip.

Finally, yes, finally, I repeat for emphasis that in a survival situation the double-edged knife has twice the number of inches of sharpened edge, or, in essence, two knives on one handle.
The double-edged dagger will last TWICE as long and cut twice as many manila ropes and cardboard boxes as will a single-edged bowie type of knife.

-----
 
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My definition of a hack or chop is a right angle hit with a blade with no forward or reverse friction on the surface of the
material being chopped.
My definition of a cut or slash is coming in at an angle causing friction between the edge and the surface causing a cut.
I had a #2 it didn't slash as well as my #1
and my #1 penetrated just as well as the #2.
In a real knife fight the first one in wins the prize anyway so in my opinion it's a
mute point.

Ray Smith
 

Ken Cox

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I cannot imagine why a #2 would not slash as well as a #1.
How would a person test these two knives against each other in terms of slashing?
 
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Just my opinion. I play with my knives all the time. I've owned Randalls for twenty years. In my opinion and it's only my opinion the model 14 is the best Randall for
slashing because the blade configuration has a little more curve to it. Meaning less friction so deeper the cut when the blade
comes in contact. Don't get me wrong the
model #2 will still do the job as far as slashing goes. I think we're on the same page as far as the mechanics of slashing.
One more point on the model #1 and that is
the point is higher than center line
meaning that if you use the back cut the
point kind of drags into the target causing
far greater damage. You can test this yourself by using a balloon. First drag the model #2 across the balloon. Then drag the model #1 across the balloon upside down.
The model #1 will pop the balloon for sure.
The model #2 may or may not, probably not,
pop the balloon. Now try it on a piece of cardboard. I saw Bill Bagwell demonstate
the above, it was pretty eye opening.
Of course Mr. Bagwell used his own knives
and he was cutting two by six's in half.
The principle is still the same.
Only my opinion, I prefer the Model #1

Ray Smith
 

Ken Cox

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Every knife represents compromises.

If one wants to hack through 2X4's, I expect a #1 will serve better than a #2.

However, try laying out a number of tasks which one might encounter in a survival/tactical/combat/self-defense situation and see how each knife, the #1 and the #2 respectively, handles each of them.

In addition to a supply of 2X4's I would suggest hanging a side of beef.
Think about it.
 
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I have thought about it and if I could afford a side of beef to hang I would
hang one. Then I would invite you over for a barbeque. We could test our knives on a
nice porterhouse with A=1 sauce.

Ray Smith
 

Ken Cox

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One hardly ever hears the word Porterhouse anymore.
Mmmmmm.
Sounds good.
 
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