Randall Knives Collectors Poll

[Unicorn161]

I agree for high vanadium steels. But why not using something like AEB-L or 14C28N?
It will not eat their belts like crazy and they'll be able to claim they are using the best "high toughness stainless steel".

I did a little reading and found that AEB-L and LC200N are harder or more challenging steel to forge, but 14C28N is supposed to be pretty forgiving. It would be a bit of a learning curve for the entire prices, from forging to heat treat, but in my none expert opinion I think it would be good in the long run. Especially if they had a good marketing campaign along with it.

I was thinking that maybe either L6 or 80CrV2 for the carbon steel option. But they seem to be quite a bit harder to forge, grind, and heat treat. I know that some will still look down on these "basic," steels that don't hold an edge as well as many others, but they are going to handle a lot of hard use and people wouldn't be as afraid of damaging their expensive knives if they were shown how tough and reliable those are.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

I did a little reading and found that AEB-L and LC200N are harder or more challenging steel to forge, but 14C28N is supposed to be pretty forgiving. It would be a bit of a learning curve for the entire prices, from forging to heat treat, but in my none expert opinion I think it would be good in the long run. Especially if they had a good marketing campaign along with it.

I was thinking that maybe either L6 or 80CrV2 for the carbon steel option. But they seem to be quite a bit harder to forge, grind, and heat treat. I know that some will still look down on these "basic," steels that don't hold an edge as well as many others, but they are going to handle a lot of hard use and people wouldn't be as afraid of damaging their expensive knives if they were shown how tough and reliable those are.

Almost none of that is true. LC200n might have stricter forging atmosphere requirements, as it’s prone to decarb, but 14c28n isn’t any harder or easier to forge than AEB-L is, and both are likely on par with 440b.

L6 and 80CrV2 probably wouldn’t offer enough improvement to justify the switch, and neither are hard to forge or grind.


And, the obvious thing here, is only one of those is a US alloy, and I’d be surprised if an American icon like Randall wouldn’t insist on using US steel. I could be mistaken, but I don’t believe that there are any current mills making L6 in this country, although I know Niagara Specialty Metals has a limited supply of it in their yard.


None of the alloys listed would offer any improvement with the geometry Randall uses, and certainly not at the hardness levels that they run.


I guess it’s fun to speculate, but most of this is like pushing chain. ‘Improving’ Randall would, essentially, require Randall to no longer be what they’ve always been, and if you’re not buying a Randall because it’s a Randall, you’re likely buying something else specifically because it ISN’T a Randall.

I only own one Randall, and my ownership of it has more to do with family legacy than anything else. It was an incredibly important knife for someone that was an incredibly important person in my life, and a crucial time in their life, and his conviction in the capability of that knife was paramount to that time. I can almost guarantee that he wouldn’t understand any of this discussion, if he were alive to enter the dialogue.

 

[John Phillips]

I can only speculate, but I’m guessing that they’ve got established channels for the alloys they use, and are likely US suppliers. Neither of the alloys you’ve mentioned are made here. They might also not respond as readily to their established processes as O1 and 440b do.

For the record, I don’t personally believe that they would see dramatically improved performance by switching alloys, based on the geometry they use. That geometry is the key to my statement.


Much of this boils down to heritage. They have an established name, with a well regarded and iconic product, using two very specific materials. Contrary to the expressed opinions of some here, I don’t for a moment believe that they’ll be forced to ‘evolve’ to survive. People have come to expect certain things from them, and if that’s not what you’re looking for, then you’re not their customer, that’s all.

All companies must evolve or adapt to survive through multiple generations or they will die off. There are literally too many to count across all industries. You must bring in new customers or you will die…eventually.

They will continue to do fine for the next 5-10 years but I think it’ll be a slow fade unless they adapt/evolve to bring in the younger crowd bc if the only one’s buying are older, they’ll eventually pass on and then who will be their customer base? You may also have a significant influx of supply when boomers pass on and leave collections to children and grandchildren that may not appreciate their historical significance.

 

[Chefget]

On their landing page Randall States "RANDALL MADE KNIVES. TOMORROW'S COLLECTOR'S PIECE, TODAY."

The vast majority of Randall buyers are collectors or are buying the knife as a 'Randall' intended more to be passed down than used.

To this market knife steel is at best secondary to 'legacy'. Indeed Randall might be seen as foolish to hop on the current 'knife steel frenzy' bandwagon.

 

[Unicorn161]

Almost none of that is true. LC200n might have stricter forging atmosphere requirements, as it’s prone to decarb, but 14c28n isn’t any harder or easier to forge than AEB-L is, and both are likely on par with 440b.

L6 and 80CrV2 probably wouldn’t offer enough improvement to justify the switch, and neither are hard to forge or grind.


And, the obvious thing here, is only one of those is a US alloy, and I’d be surprised if an American icon like Randall wouldn’t insist on using US steel. I could be mistaken, but I don’t believe that there are any current mills making L6 in this country, although I know Niagara Specialty Metals has a limited supply of it in their yard.


None of the alloys listed would offer any improvement with the geometry Randall uses, and certainly not at the hardness levels that they run.


I guess it’s fun to speculate, but most of this is like pushing chain. ‘Improving’ Randall would, essentially, require Randall to no longer be what they’ve always been, and if you’re not buying a Randall because it’s a Randall, you’re likely buying something else specifically because it ISN’T a Randall.

I only own one Randall, and my ownership of it has more to do with family legacy than anything else. It was an incredibly important knife for someone that was an incredibly important person in my life, and a crucial time in their life, and his conviction in the capability of that knife was paramount to that time. I can almost guarantee that he wouldn’t understand any of this discussion, if he were alive to enter the dialogue.

Ok, I was wrong about the difficulty in forging then.

However, the toughness of the steel is what I'm looking at, not just how well it can cut. Look at the advertising of the 14. An almost indestructible knife. How well is that knife going to hold up to the people today who like to bash knives through small logs? While they say it's abuse, people still love to do so. The Model 1 and 14 are advertised as fighting knives for military use. Have you seen what bored infantry do in the field with knives? Or even just using them to do things that shouldn't be done. From hard chopping to even prying. And if we want to think that they might get used for their intended purpose, it's not all that hard to break off the tip if you go to stab someone and you hit a steel AK mag by mistake. Even with the thick blades and edges they use.

It seems that the only people buying Randalls are old timers or those buying something pretty to look at. In multiple infantry units, and having friends in SF and a Ranger batallion, I've never seen a single Randal on anyone's kit. I've seen expensive knives, handmade knives, but not a single Randall. None of the former Marines I know have carried or seen a Randall. At least that they know of.

Hunters aren't buying their knives to use in the field. People aren't buying their camp knives to use in the woods. Yes, a generalizattion, but I'd guess that lessthan 10% of the knives are used for their intended purpose. Which would be ok if they weren't marketed as hard use field knives and they were honest about just being wall hangers. I like the designs of a couple of their knives, a lot, and when younger I would have loved to have had a 14 or 15 on my pistol belt.

They are purely living on their legacy, and they are very much resting on their laurels.

There will always be a place for high quality, well made knives even with a high price, and people will even use them, but part of that is also the perception of high quality materials.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

All companies must evolve or adapt to survive through multiple generations or they will die off. There are literally too many to count across all industries. You must bring in new customers or you will die…eventually.

They will continue to do fine for the next 5-10 years but I think it’ll be a slow fade unless they adapt/evolve to bring in the younger crowd bc if the only one’s buying are older, they’ll eventually pass on and then who will be their customer base? You may also have a significant influx of supply when boomers pass on and leave collections to children and grandchildren that may not appreciate their historical significance.

John, in principle I agree with your perspective in regard to evolving. However, I think there are exceptions to this, and as Chefget points out above, the people purchasing Randall knives - that still manage to justify a five year backlog - aren’t buying them because they’re the bleeding edge of performance in the knife steel world, they’re buying them because they’re Randalls.




Might be fun to see a modern take on a Model 1 in 3v, with titanium fittings and carbon fiber appointments. Wonder if there’s anyone that would consider making something like that…

(…I can feel Steven65 grinning from here).

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Ok, I was wrong about the difficulty in forging then.

However, the toughness of the steel is what I'm looking at, not just how well it can cut. Look at the advertising of the 14. An almost indestructible knife. How well is that knife going to hold up to the people today who like to bash knives through small logs? While they say it's abuse, people still love to do so. The Model 1 and 14 are advertised as fighting knives for military use. Have you seen what bored infantry do in the field with knives? Or even just using them to do things that shouldn't be done. From hard chopping to even prying. And if we want to think that they might get used for their intended purpose, it's not all that hard to break off the tip if you go to stab someone and you hit a steel AK mag by mistake. Even with the thick blades and edges they use.

The Randall I own was carried in combat, and was regularly used to pry open crates. A Model 14, btw.


“They are purely living on their legacy, and they are very much resting on their laurels.

There will always be a place for high quality, well made knives even with a high price, and people will even use them, but part of that is also the perception of high quality materials.”



I’m not arguing any of this - seriously! I agree with you, which is why my own approach to making knives differs from theirs. That doesn’t stop the fact that they’re highly unlikely to change course because we think they need to. That’s my point.

 

[John A. Larsen]

Ok, I was wrong about the difficulty in forging then.

However, the toughness of the steel is what I'm looking at, not just how well it can cut. Look at the advertising of the 14. An almost indestructible knife. How well is that knife going to hold up to the people today who like to bash knives through small logs? While they say it's abuse, people still love to do so. The Model 1 and 14 are advertised as fighting knives for military use. Have you seen what bored infantry do in the field with knives? Or even just using them to do things that shouldn't be done. From hard chopping to even prying. And if we want to think that they might get used for their intended purpose, it's not all that hard to break off the tip if you go to stab someone and you hit a steel AK mag by mistake. Even with the thick blades and edges they use.

It seems that the only people buying Randalls are old timers or those buying something pretty to look at. In multiple infantry units, and having friends in SF and a Ranger batallion, I've never seen a single Randal on anyone's kit. I've seen expensive knives, handmade knives, but not a single Randall. None of the former Marines I know have carried or seen a Randall. At least that they know of.

Hunters aren't buying their knives to use in the field. People aren't buying their camp knives to use in the woods. Yes, a generalizattion, but I'd guess that lessthan 10% of the knives are used for their intended purpose. Which would be ok if they weren't marketed as hard use field knives and they were honest about just being wall hangers. I like the designs of a couple of their knives, a lot, and when younger I would have loved to have had a 14 or 15 on my pistol belt.

They are purely living on their legacy, and they are very much resting on their laurels.

There will always be a place for high quality, well made knives even with a high price, and people will even use them, but part of that is also the perception of high quality materials.

I agree that you do not see Randalls being used currently, the cost and wait time are a factor. I bought my Model 14 from VanSickle, in Texas in 1970. He would order Randalls every year and you could get a list from him, and for about a 20% mark up get the knife immediately. I carried that Model 14 for my last tour in Vietnam with the Border Ranger Program (old SF Camps, new name) and from that year, 1971 to 1991. Many, many field exercises from Winter Warfare to in the Jungle of Brunei, Thailand and the Philippines. Dove salt and fresh water, and never had a problem, so it was tough enough for what I did. My only change to it, was I was never really happy with the finger grip handle, so in 1988 had custom Knife maker Wayne Goddard (RIP) put a new handle on it and carried that for another 3 years before I retired. I did buy a Model 2, from Randall, but we had a man in our unit who had worked for Randall and you could get one without the wait time if you were on active duty. Cost me $80, and about 10 years later I sold it to a main my unit for exactly what I paid for it. John
PS: Forgot to mention, my Model 14 was 440B Stainless. I also have a Ben Hibben Jungle Fighter in 440C, which was forged as Hibben could only get round bar stock in 440C at that time or so I was told.

 

[Steven65]

Might be fun to see a modern take on a Model 1 in 3v, with titanium fittings and carbon fiber appointments. Wonder if there’s anyone that would consider making something like that…

(…I can feel Steven65 grinning from here).

Matt consider this an order........I'm in!

When you order a knife from Randall it's like ordering a new original '67 fastback Mustang. It's not pretending to be anything it isn't.

The knives have provenance and history. If that appeals to you, good. If not there are many, many other modern choices.

Randall don't claim anything unbelievable, don't make videos of folks doing crazy s**t with their knives, and they run a super straight business.
They are the quintessential old school company making an old school product.

Eventually almost every serious knife collector will have one...............

 

[Matthew Gregory]

I agree that you do not see Randalls being used currently, the cost and wait time are a factor. I bought my Model 14 from VanSickle, in Texas in 1970. He would order Randalls every year and you could get a list from him, and for about a 20% mark up get the knife immediately. I carried that Model 14 for my last tour in Vietnam with the Border Ranger Program (old SF Camps, new name) and from that year, 1971 to 1991. Many, many field exercises from Winter Warfare to in the Jungle of Brunei, Thailand and the Philippines. Dove salt and fresh water, and never had a problem, so it was tough enough for what I did. My only change to it, was I was never really happy with teh finger grip handle, so in 1988 had custom Knife maker Wayne Goddard (RIP) put a new handle on it and carried that for another 3 years before I retired. I did buy a Model 2, from Randall, but we had a man in our unit who had worked for Randall and you could get one without the wait time if you were on active duty. Cost me $80, and about 10 years later I sold it to a main my unit for exactly what I paid for it. John

So glad you chimed in, here, John. That’s exactly the point I was trying to convey. Whether anyone would use or carry one now is irrelevant. They’ve proven their merit for decades and generations. At some point, perhaps I’ll share the provenance of the one that’s now in my possession.

Matt consider this an order........I'm in!

When you order a knife from Randall it's like ordering a new original '67 fastback Mustang. It's not pretending to be anything it isn't.

The knives have provenance and history. If that appeals to you, good. If not there are many, many other modern choices.

Randall don't claim anything unbelievable, don't make videos of folks doing crazy s**t with their knives, and they run a super straight business.
They are the quintessential old school company making an old school product.

Eventually almost every serious knife collector will have one...............

Well, with me, you know the order will likely take just as long if not longer than Randall’s wait list…

 

[John A. Larsen]

So glad you chimed in, here, John. That’s exactly the point I was trying to convey. Whether anyone would use or carry one now is irrelevant. They’ve proven their merit for decades and generations. At some point, perhaps I’ll share the provenance of the one that’s now in my possession.







Well, with me, you know the order will likely take just as long if not longer than Randall’s wait list…

Would like to hear the story about the Randall you have. John

 

[John Phillips]

I agree that you do not see Randalls being used currently, the cost and wait time are a factor. I bought my Model 14 from VanSickle, in Texas in 1970. He would order Randalls every year and you could get a list from him, and for about a 20% mark up get the knife immediately. I carried that Model 14 for my last tour in Vietnam with the Border Ranger Program (old SF Camps, new name) and from that year, 1971 to 1991. Many, many field exercises from Winter Warfare to in the Jungle of Brunei, Thailand and the Philippines. Dove salt and fresh water, and never had a problem, so it was tough enough for what I did. My only change to it, was I was never really happy with teh finger grip handle, so in 1988 had custom Knife maker Wayne Goddard (RIP) put a new handle on it and carried that for another 3 years before I retired. I did buy a Model 2, from Randall, but we had a man in our unit who had worked for Randall and you could get one without the wait time if you were on active duty. Cost me $80, and about 10 years later I sold it to a main my unit for exactly what I paid for it. John
PS: Forgot to mention, my Model 14 was 440B Stainless. I also have a Ben Hibben Jungle Fighter in 440C, which was forged as Hibben could only get round bar stock in 440C at that time or so I was told.

Thank you for sharing!!! Thank you for your service!!!!!!!!! Any pictures of your Randall you could share would be incredible!!!!!

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Would like to hear the story about the Randall you have. John

“My” Randall Model 14 Attack was purchased and carried by my Uncle, Simon Gregory, during his tours in Vietnam. You can read a bit about his experiences here.


He was a unique and driven man, intelligent, articulate, passionate and relentless. Many have said that the two of us are quite similar (for better or for worse), and I know that he felt the same (‘a matched pair of assholes’, he said) .
When he passed, the knife came to me. Throughout his life, it was a talisman which held tremendous power in his memory, with many things both good and bad attached to those memories.

We didn’t really connect until I was in my early 40’s. Sometimes it works that way, I guess. I’m very thankful that we found common ground, despite it being late in life. His passing was a very difficult one, for me, but I’m grateful to have been able to forge such a strong tie with him.

 

[Steven65]

“My” Randall Model 14 Attack was purchased and carried by my Uncle, Simon Gregory, during his tours in Vietnam. You can read a bit about his experiences here.


He was a unique and driven man, intelligent, articulate, passionate and relentless. Many have said that the two of us are quite similar (for better or for worse), and I know that he felt the same (‘a matched pair of assholes’, he said) .
When he passed, the knife came to me. Throughout his life, it was a talisman which held tremendous power in his memory, with many things both good and bad attached to those memories.

We didn’t really connect until I was in my early 40’s. Sometimes it works that way, I guess. I’m very thankful that we found common ground, despite it being late in life. His passing was a very difficult one, for me, but I’m grateful to have been able to forge such a strong tie with him.

Amazing story Matt. Thank you for sharing. What an absolutely fabulous piece of his history to have.

Your pics are also exceptional.......beautifully lit.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

The Spyderco factory store is a Randall dealer. I bought my last 2 from them.

Indeed they are! I usually look at them when I stop in, not many places anywhere that you can do that with Randalls.

The most recent time, about a month ago, they had this one with a nifty blackened blade that I almost bought.

 

[jbmonkey]

Indeed they are! I usually look at them when I stop in, not many places anywhere that you can do that with Randalls.

The most recent time, about a month ago, they had this one with a nifty blackened blade that I almost bought.

blackened blade is the best.....

 

[eveled]

The wait keeps getting longer, I don’t think interest is fading.

Now is the time to order one if you are inclined. Prices usually go up with the new year.

 

[eveled]

blackened blade is the best.....

That’s Cajun style isn’t it?

 

[eveled]

Don’t forget the poll results will reflect the demographic of this forum as much as the demographic of the average Randall collector

 

[John Phillips]

Don’t forget the poll results will reflect the demographic of this forum as much as the demographic of the average Randall collector

Not a bad point but it still gives some insight. I could start the same poll for Spyderco, Carothers, etc and I know the results would be vastly different.