Randomness thread

[Moorik]

An interesting point is that when looking at enthusiasts' tests comparing steels head-to-head, Z-Tuff often shows better corrosion resistance than CPM3V.
In the context of impact testing on a horn, I conduct tests in roughly the same way. Interestingly, the Edge Toughness Test characteristic also comes out on top, and notably so, by about 45 percent. This is with the same thin angle of 31 degrees. A highly interesting and curious test.

I have a feeling that the use of Z-Tuff, especially in the context of large choppers and big blades, or even smaller ones, for daily work, could, in a certain sense, represent an evolution, transitioning from 3V steel to Z-Tuff.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

An interesting point is that when looking at enthusiasts' tests comparing steels head-to-head, Z-Tuff often shows better corrosion resistance than CPM3V.
In the context of impact testing on a horn, I conduct tests in roughly the same way. Interestingly, the Edge Toughness Test characteristic also comes out on top, and notably so, by about 45 percent. This is with the same thin angle of 31 degrees. A highly interesting and curious test.

I have a feeling that the use of Z-Tuff, especially in the context of large choppers and big blades, or even smaller ones, for daily work, could, in a certain sense, represent an evolution, transitioning from 3V steel to Z-Tuff.

I've seen this video before. I think the HT's used were not fair across the steels. I think optimally heat treated 3V and Z Tuff (at least the way I do it) are very close in terms of corrosion resistance. In my testing I've seen no differences at all and they both like to pit if you don't clean them after use.

As for toughness, I think Z Tuff has the edge but for most things we are cutting into, both are so tough that the likelihood of breakage or edge damage is low. The only damage i've ever seen from customers is hitting rocks with the tip of the Fell Beast.

For me, the main difference as maker is cost, ease of processing, and ease of field sharpening.

Z Tuff is cheaper, easier to mill and grind, and easier to field sharpen which I think makes it a phenomenal option for really big hard use blades. On the Tyrant Bowie for example, 3V adds about $150- $200 of actual cost vs Z tuff, even when I get the sheets custom rolled. I don't think the difference in edge holding is worth that much money for me personally. Heck, you could buy a pretty sick sharpening setup for that.

 

[Moorik]

I've seen this video before. I think the HT's used were not fair across the steels. I think optimally heat treated 3V and Z Tuff (at least the way I do it) are very close in terms of corrosion resistance. In my testing I've seen no differences at all and they both like to pit if you don't clean them after use.

As for toughness, I think Z Tuff has the edge but for most things we are cutting into, both are so tough that the likelihood of breakage or edge damage is low. The only damage i've ever seen from customers is hitting rocks with the tip of the Fell Beast.

For me, the main difference as maker is cost, ease of processing, and ease of field sharpening.

Z Tuff is cheaper, easier to mill and grind, and easier to field sharpen which I think makes it a phenomenal option for really big hard use blades. On the Tyrant Bowie for example, 3V adds about $150- $200 of actual cost vs Z tuff, even when I get the sheets custom rolled. I don't think the difference in edge holding is worth that much money for me personally. Heck, you could buy a pretty sick sharpening setup for that.

You know, after a recent curious sharpening test with a single 150-grit abrasive, without moving to other abrasives, I noticed something interesting that made me realize why working with Z-Tuff is so much easier and cheaper. At 150 grit, I sharpened and minimized the burr about twice as fast as with 3V. And the burr smooths out more easily. The "stickiness" of Z-Tuff you mentioned is a huge advantage.

I also tested the Fell Beast by striking it against very hard oak knots and horn. Z-Tuff, you know, I’m starting to love and understand this steel more and more. Honestly, when I first saw it—you remember from my early messages—I wanted 3V on everything possible . But now, I’m leaning toward Z-Tuff. I’m really excited to keep testing, and in my specific use case, it feels tougher than 3V. Both steels are incredibly tough, but I’m starting to understand Z-Tuff more and more .
(If you were to sharpen knives by hand like this, though I’m not sure how tough it would be—say, with a large number of knives—it’d be something. But you know, in terms of factory sharpness, your blades would be unmatched. Hand sharpening, honestly, beats a grinder by almost half. Just some thoughts.)

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

You know, after a recent curious sharpening test with a single 150-grit abrasive, without moving to other abrasives, I noticed something interesting that made me realize why working with Z-Tuff is so much easier and cheaper. At 150 grit, I sharpened and minimized the burr about twice as fast as with 3V. And the burr smooths out more easily. The "stickiness" of Z-Tuff you mentioned is a huge advantage.

I also tested the Fell Beast by striking it against very hard oak knots and horn. Z-Tuff, you know, I’m starting to love and understand this steel more and more. Honestly, when I first saw it—you remember from my early messages—I wanted 3V on everything possible . But now, I’m leaning toward Z-Tuff. I’m really excited to keep testing, and in my specific use case, it feels tougher than 3V. Both steels are incredibly tough, but I’m starting to understand Z-Tuff more and more .
(If you were to sharpen knives by hand like this, though I’m not sure how tough it would be—say, with a large number of knives—it’d be something. But you know, in terms of factory sharpness, your blades would be unmatched. Hand sharpening, honestly, beats a grinder by almost half. Just some thoughts.)

I would LOVE to do hand sharpening. It is absolutely superior. I'm just not very good at it and it takes a long time. Plus if you make one mistake and touch anything but the edge on the stone, you now get to refinish your entire knife.

 

[Moorik]

I would LOVE to do hand sharpening. It is absolutely superior. I'm just not very good at it and it takes a long time. Plus if you make one mistake and touch anything but the edge on the stone, you now get to refinish your entire knife.

Yes, I perfectly understand why sharpening a new knife or knives in this way is difficult.
Plus, it’s very easy to make a mistake, which is honestly a downside.
In a way, I wouldn’t take on something myself that I haven’t done before, where a mistake could cost an entire new blade or hours of work

 

[Moorik]

Nobody would mind if I use this thread as a diary for experiments, thoughts, and discoveries, right?
So, I think I’ve come up with something like a super cheap and EXTREMELY effective sharpening protocol.
I’m using a certain material (won’t say which ) and applying a specific oil to it, which, combined with high-concentration diamond paste, creates a suspension that lets me jump from 150 grit straight to 2000 and achieve a surface quality you couldn’t get even with 10,000–12,000 grit.
This works because the steel is sharpened by the diamond paste applied to this material, which allows the diamond grains to roll over the steel, sharpening it.
The result? It’s not even comparable to abrasives that cost $100 per stone.
And get this: the cost of this setup—oil, paste, and the material I apply it to (I made my own sharpening block)—was about $25.
The speed at high grit levels is comparable to a grinder .

This is Z-Tuff steel.
Time for this result is about 15 minutes

 

[Moorik]

The progression, due to the direct contact of steel with diamond without the intermediary of abrasive bonds, allows for such rapid steel processing that I can jump from 2000 grit to 10,000 grit without intermediate steps, achieving results incomparable to other abrasives .
Just 3 steps to edge like this

 

[Moorik]

I made my own abrasive and played around a bit with the sharpening idea—well, it seems I’ve outdone myself.
25DPS

For those who aren't too familiar with the context of sharpness:
I deliberately stop the blade in the paper or cut it with a straight motion, for example, to demonstrate the aggression of the cut. This is because the blade is so sharp that it cuts without slicing, just by applying pressure to the material.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

I made my own abrasive and played around a bit with the sharpening idea—well, it seems I’ve outdone myself.
25DPS

I can HEAR the sharpness. Amazing work!

 

[Moorik]

I can HEAR the sharpness. Amazing work!

I tried cutting receipt paper like this for the first time, and damn, with a total angle of 25 degrees, it cuts it effortlessly when I just push the blade, without even moving it along the material.
In fact, I have the sharpness of 17-19 degrees per side, but a total angle of 50 degrees with my 25 DPS.
This is an extremely durable thing.

I definitely need Hollywood operator
I have a feeling that I just uncovered some forbidden knowledge.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

Alright so here's my official stance on the bend vs break debate. If you are in a bad spot, is it better for a big knife or chopper or sword to bend or break?

I'd like to preface this with the fact that differentially tempered blades made from standard high carbon steels like 52100, when flexed in a vice, can be extended to the point that they take a bend, and then be bent back and still function and have good structural integrity. I've done it many times while testing my DHT on 52100. However, bending a knife of that quality to the point that it plastically deforms and then bending it back literally requires a vice. I'm not even sure how you would manage to do that in normal use.

With that said, In other testing videos I've seen with swords and machetes that are HT to lower hardness so they won't snap, they can in fact bend during routine or very hard but sensible use. If you have that happen, you now have a non functional blade and you are already starting with a crappier blade because its so dang soft.

Below are some Fell Beasts that I snapped in a vice. Mind you, I sacrificed 5 of these during testing to make sure Z Tuff and the HT was good. I was never able to break one from chopping or even hammering the spine into a steel I beam with a steel hammer. All 5 of them died by being snapped in the vice by a 225lbs ape.

But heres the end result. IF you manage to break one, it breaks every time into two clean pieces. You now have two knives made from 61RC, ultra high quality steel that are still usable.

The middle blade is still a 10in chopper and the broken tip can easily have a handle crafted from a piece of wood and attached with some cordage. So if you do break one, you now have a 10in fully functional chopper and a smaller knife you can use for fine work with an improvised handle.

So thats my answer to a hypothetical that probably none of us will ever face.

 

[Leviathan Arms]

What I’m hearing is that you plan to make a few one offs from broken blades……. Please?

 

[zaedion]

That's freaking awesome! I could totally see the middle one could just buff out the rust and use it as a cleaver straight up, or clip the spine a bit and make it a broken back seax! The one on the left would make a nice mini-cleaver, and the one on the right could probably make a nice hidden tang. Nothing wasted!

 

[zaedion]

M Moorik That's some serious sharpness ASMR right there! Keep 'em coming!!

 

[GreX]

Alright so here's my official stance on the bend vs break debate. If you are in a bad spot, is it better for a big knife or chopper or sword to bend or break?

I'd like to preface this with the fact that differentially tempered blades made from standard high carbon steels like 52100, when flexed in a vice, can be extended to the point that they take a bend, and then be bent back and still function and have good structural integrity. I've done it many times while testing my DHT on 52100. However, bending a knife of that quality to the point that it plastically deforms and then bending it back literally requires a vice. I'm not even sure how you would manage to do that in normal use.

With that said, In other testing videos I've seen with swords and machetes that are HT to lower hardness so they won't snap, they can in fact bend during routine or very hard but sensible use. If you have that happen, you now have a non functional blade and you are already starting with a crappier blade because its so dang soft.

Below are some Fell Beasts that I snapped in a vice. Mind you, I sacrificed 5 of these during testing to make sure Z Tuff and the HT was good. I was never able to break one from chopping or even hammering the spine into a steel I beam with a steel hammer. All 5 of them died by being snapped in the vice by a 225lbs ape.

But heres the end result. IF you manage to break one, it breaks every time into two clean pieces. You now have two knives made from 61RC, ultra high quality steel that are still usable.

The middle blade is still a 10in chopper and the broken tip can easily have a handle crafted from a piece of wood and attached with some cordage. So if you do break one, you now have a 10in fully functional chopper and a smaller knife you can use for fine work with an improvised handle.

So thats my answer to a hypothetical that probably none of us will ever face.

Seems like you solved the big questions, "how do we clone excellent knives?" - and "what's better than one good knife? two"

 

[Moorik]

Alright so here's my official stance on the bend vs break debate. If you are in a bad spot, is it better for a big knife or chopper or sword to bend or break?

I'd like to preface this with the fact that differentially tempered blades made from standard high carbon steels like 52100, when flexed in a vice, can be extended to the point that they take a bend, and then be bent back and still function and have good structural integrity. I've done it many times while testing my DHT on 52100. However, bending a knife of that quality to the point that it plastically deforms and then bending it back literally requires a vice. I'm not even sure how you would manage to do that in normal use.

With that said, In other testing videos I've seen with swords and machetes that are HT to lower hardness so they won't snap, they can in fact bend during routine or very hard but sensible use. If you have that happen, you now have a non functional blade and you are already starting with a crappier blade because its so dang soft.

Below are some Fell Beasts that I snapped in a vice. Mind you, I sacrificed 5 of these during testing to make sure Z Tuff and the HT was good. I was never able to break one from chopping or even hammering the spine into a steel I beam with a steel hammer. All 5 of them died by being snapped in the vice by a 225lbs ape.

But heres the end result. IF you manage to break one, it breaks every time into two clean pieces. You now have two knives made from 61RC, ultra high quality steel that are still usable.

The middle blade is still a 10in chopper and the broken tip can easily have a handle crafted from a piece of wood and attached with some cordage. So if you do break one, you now have a 10in fully functional chopper and a smaller knife you can use for fine work with an improvised handle.

So thats my answer to a hypothetical that probably none of us will ever face.

Your mouse pad is literally luxury
I'll confirm the words about bending the Fell Beast and Tyrant:
The Fell Beast only bends if you specifically want it to, like driving it into a tree and deliberately bending it. I’ve struck oak and hornbeam, including knots, and honestly, I’ve never even felt any significant vibration or anything like that.
With the Tyrant, well I managed to bend it just the tiniest bit, so in real-world use, I can’t even imagine the context needed to break them.
I had never used a machete before, but now it’s literally one of my favorite blades.

 

[Moorik]

By the way, it seems, as the most attentive one, I'm curious about what you were cutting with that part of the blade.

Alright so here's my official stance on the bend vs break debate. If you are in a bad spot, is it better for a big knife or chopper or sword to bend or break?

I'd like to preface this with the fact that differentially tempered blades made from standard high carbon steels like 52100, when flexed in a vice, can be extended to the point that they take a bend, and then be bent back and still function and have good structural integrity. I've done it many times while testing my DHT on 52100. However, bending a knife of that quality to the point that it plastically deforms and then bending it back literally requires a vice. I'm not even sure how you would manage to do that in normal use.

With that said, In other testing videos I've seen with swords and machetes that are HT to lower hardness so they won't snap, they can in fact bend during routine or very hard but sensible use. If you have that happen, you now have a non functional blade and you are already starting with a crappier blade because its so dang soft.

Below are some Fell Beasts that I snapped in a vice. Mind you, I sacrificed 5 of these during testing to make sure Z Tuff and the HT was good. I was never able to break one from chopping or even hammering the spine into a steel I beam with a steel hammer. All 5 of them died by being snapped in the vice by a 225lbs ape.

But heres the end result. IF you manage to break one, it breaks every time into two clean pieces. You now have two knives made from 61RC, ultra high quality steel that are still usable.

The middle blade is still a 10in chopper and the broken tip can easily have a handle crafted from a piece of wood and attached with some cordage. So if you do break one, you now have a 10in fully functional chopper and a smaller knife you can use for fine work with an improvised handle.

So thats my answer to a hypothetical that probably none of us will ever face.

By the way, it seems, as the most attentive one, I'm curious about what you were cutting with that part of the blade?
Looks like SO HARD TESTS



P.S
Hmm, honestly, for some of my tests and experiments, I’d be interested in any, even a small piece of Z-Tuff steel. I’d like to try pushing the maximum BTE (Behind The Edge) values and DPS (Damage Per Side) to see what exactly and how this steel can handle in the context of my tests.
I wouldn’t want to take away from folks who need a full piece, so I’d be happy with 2-4 inches of this steel.
I’d try to conduct some tests, like chopping through a huge, thick link of soft, unhardened chain. It’d be interesting to figure out what kind of BTE (Behind The Edge) is needed to withstand that kind of load for this steel.
I’d make and shape something like a Firefighter knife out of it.
But I wouldn’t want to take away from Zaedion and the other guys.
I have a feeling that, you know, I could, in theory, just come up with and structure the BTE and DPS characteristics for Z-Tuff steel.
Like, the exact BTE and DPS values that the steel could handle for *Action Name*.