Rat 1 Folder

something is not right here ,I am glad i picked up a used one because if i bought new for the $65-70 range and seen you selling for the $25-30 range ,I would be pissed
 
Tom, we appreciate you selling our product. The knives you have are not knock-offs - we didn't say they were. The issue here is RAT and Ontario agreed to quit producing this knife due to the problems of it coming out of Asia. So, just to be clear, we no longer endorse the use of the RAT name on any overseas knife. We do not warranty them (Ontario might) but in the past Mike and I have been the ones who footed the bill on replacement parts when a folder would have problems. We just want everyone to know that we will no longer do that and Ontario is solely responsible for the warranty and customer service on this product. We have formally requested that Ontario remove our name from the new order of folders they just ordered from Paul Lin. This is solely due to the knife being made in Asia and the problems we have already detailed. As for the pricing, the bottom got dropped out of the price after this last re-order (after it was agreed the folder was being discontinued). We have customers emailing us because some folks have bought at this lower pricing that Ontario is now giving while they still have knives at the higher price they had to pay a while back. Mike and I are Capitalists and believe every company can set their prices as they see fit, but the difference in pricing is causing problems and Mike and I are distancing ourselves from this and Ontario's business practices, since we were not included in the decision making process about one of our designs that we license to Ontario to make/ sell. Hope this clears up any confusion.

Jeff


CRKS said:
Mike and Jeff,

I have always been on the up and up with every thing I sell and every thing that I buy from you guys and Ontario. I am the dealer selling the knives for the low price.

In addition the knives are made in Taiwan and have always been made in Taiwan not China. I got the knives from Ontario (just as I always do) and the knives have a warranty.

I know Ontario well enough, they will not let a customer hanging over a warranty issue.

I'm not getting in between the RAT/Ontario politics. I just want my customers to know that these knives are not knockoffs, and they were obtained just like all other knives.

Tom
Chestnut Ridge Knife Shop
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I ordered a couple of these from Tom at Chestnut Ridge and they sure seem to be the real McCoy to me!! I don't think I've ever had a knife be sharper out of the box than these are. Warranty or not, these are great knives and a great deal. Thanks Tom!
 
i'm pretty impressed too. for the money, you gotta pick your features and this knife has all the right ones. high grind, comfort, solid lockup.
 
Yes amount of royalties are affected however that is the very least of the issue. Using our name on an imported product which we have no control over regarding quality or customer service is everything. They reissued the folder without our consent or permission, lowered the price thereby cutting the throats of distributors and dealers who had already bought earlier at a higher price and putting the folder in the same category as gas station quality cutlery. Jeff and I have never been part of that business practice and do not want to be part of it. Period. Mike
 
Just to be clear here, this has nothing to do with Tom at Chestnut Ridge. He's a private businessman and we firmly, 100 percent support his right to sell his product at any price he deems fit for his company. We do not have MAP pricing and never will since MAP pricing, to us, is anti-Capitalist. We appreciate Tom's business and to be honest with you, if I decide to buy more Model 1 folders then I will buy them from Tom since I can buy them from him cheaper than I can buy them from Ontario. Tom and Chestnut Ridge are good people.

The WHOLE and COMPLETE issue here is a violation of an agreement between Ontario and RAT, and the fact they dropped the prices (how they did this is still unclear to us) causing our other distributors to be stuck with product at higher prices. Hopefully, Ontario works this out with those who have stock at higher prices - I have faith that they will. Since returning from SHOT show we have made repeated attempts to resolve this issue with Ontario, however as of this writing those tasked with making decisions at Ontario have not communicated with us, so who knows what's going on. It's almost like we no longer exist in Ontario's eyes and they're just avoiding the whole issue and doing what they want.

In the end, we want our customers to be be able to buy our knives at the cheapest prices possible as long as quality, warranty and customer service doesn't suffer in that price lowering process. With that said, if I was in the market for a Model 1 folder then I think I would be on the phone with Tom ;)
 
This is an unfortunate situation, but I have to say I am impressed with my first Model 1 folder I got from CRKS.

I really like the design of the knife (thank you, RAT guys), especially the flat ground blade. As you know, since the demise of the Cold Steel TwistMaster, it's tough to get a decent quality folder with a flat ground blade without paying $100 and up.

While the manufacturing and business details may be troublesome with this folder, the outcome is that I am now motivated to buy a RAT fixed blade in the near future. I may even sell a BK7 to finance it. So good things came of it in the end. :D
 
Dude! Don't sell a BK 7 to finance a RAT knife. ;) There's nothing a RAT knife will do that a BK7 won't do. Besides, Ethan is a real good friend of ours and I hate to have to hurt his feelings at Blade show by announcing...very publicly... that someone sold a BK7 to finance a RAT knife :D

Speaking of that...I'm glad to see Ethan and KaBar "married." I can't think of a finer person or a finer company to be associated with.
 
Confession: I almost never sell any of my gear. I don't think I've ever sold one of my knives, and the only guns I've sold were unusable by me for some reason (like pistols that were too big for my hands). I put the smiley face after that line implying my facetious bluff, but then I added the last sentence and pushed the smiley to the end. I should have been more explicit since I am new to this subforum.

No way am I selling either of my BK7s. One is my truck knife and the other is "somewhere" in the house. Both have those spiffy micarta grips that Camillus was selling before The End of All Things.

I do intend to get a RAT ... probably a 3-4 inch model. The timing is the wildcard. Ammunition and reloading components are too expensive right now to buy more knives, but as soon as the ammo becomes too expensive to buy period, then knives will be in a better position in the queue of Things I Want but Don't Really Need.

BTW ... I enjoy your articles in SWAT and other periodicals. You enjoy going places that will never, ever "experience" my presence, so it's fun to read about them. Plus you raise awareness for obtaining skills that are useful no matter where you live and go, which is a good thing.
 
Appreciate the kudos on the SWAT articles. I enjoy writing for them 'cause they let me write it exactly as I want without having to sugar-coat anything. Also glad to hear that you're keeping the Beckers ;)
 
Magnum22 said:
thought you didn't like liners.
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I don't, in general. My belief in Jeff/Mike's designs were good enough for me to try one, though. Mine is a 1st Production Run - and it locks up nice and tight - and has a beefier liner and steeper tang ramp than many of the other liner lock folders I've used.

I'm absolutely pumped about the idea of a frame lock USA model one!

(I'd be even more pumped about a lockback or 'axis' lock variant with G10 slabs!)
 
R.A.T. said:
We'll get there. Rowen manufacturing is already researching producing it and with them at the helm the quality will be second to none. I still think we will probably go frame lock on it instead of liner lock.
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I have two of the original RAT-1 folders and the handle fits my hand like no other.

If this knife is produced in the US with the a similar handle style and a frame lock, I will definitely buy three of them.

Very solid knife.
 
Jeff thanks for clearing up the RAT 1 folder issue. Just to add to the topic. The knives that I purchased from Ontario were in stock from the original run of knives, before you folks agreed to stop production. From what I understand the new folder will not have the RAT endorsement or logo, if/when it is made.

You folks have some great knives and they have been getting fantastic comments at all the shows that I take them to.


Tom,
Chestnut Ridge Knife Shop
 
I'd actually like a folding knife along the lines of a RAT 3, just downsized for EDC, same blade specs,etc.
 
Thanks for the info, Tom. You are the second dealer that has told us this so maybe it's true. Even before all this other mess with Ontario came up, we were trying to communicate and get answers on this folder issues and no one would communicate with us (see the dates on my posts above) and we got our information from another dealer.

Anyway, I just want to say that we truly appreciate you handling our line. BTW: if you talk with Bob, tell him we said hi. We really like him. He's a good man.

Best,

Jeff
 
I actually liked the Model 1 folder I got from CRKS so much that I ordered two more. I'm probably going to retire a couple of other folders in favor of them. I really, really like wide flat ground blades made from relatively thin stock, and the Model 1 meets that. It is a really good design, obviously from someone who actually uses knives rather than someone who just collects them.

I'm looking forward to a similar product directly from RAT Cutlery. A 1095 or similar carbon steel blade would truly excite me as well. I'm all about how sharp can I get it and how well does it slice more so than corrosion resistance or marathon edge retention. Given that, the AUS-8A would be fine, although a heat treatment that leaves it just a bit harder might improve things a bit.
 
So did the price on these folders collapse after the endorsement was pulled ?

coz thats what I'm reading here , and the other thread.

was just researching this knife , dont know what to think ,now.
 
In a nutshell, Ontario and RAT agreed to cease production of the folder since it was the only RAT product made overseas and we were getting piss-poor support for the product from Taiwan. This was a long time ago when we agreed to this. At SHOT show this year we learned that Nick has changed his mind and ordered more RAT folders without consulting with us (and going against what Ontario originally agreed to). He then dropped the price substantially, basically to gas station cutlery levels, and we couldn't even see how they were making any profit. Nick refused to discuss this with us. Then we found out they tried to steal our common law marks from the Patents and Trademark office in February 2008 - almost a full year after our 5-year contract was over with them. I finally got Nick to return my calls to him. He threatens legal action against us (even though they were the ones stealing shit from us and not paying royalties for using our name, logos, likeness, etc.). At that stage we turned everything over to our Intellectual Property attorney and that's where we're at today. All of this is well documented on various threads on this forum, including links to the PTO trademark attempts, proof of RAT having prior commerce on our products before Ontario, etc. Ontario Knife Company is stealing from us, and we can (and have) prove that beyond ANY doubt.

The folder was a good knife but we couldn't get support from Taiwan on repair issues. We plan on making the design again in the United States. If you buy the Ontario folder then you will get a good design but you're also contributing to the ongoing theft of property against RAT. We can't and won't tell any consumer what to do, so let your conscience be your guide. ;)
 
BBB,
You and Dalit get together and go play troll party or something. It's pretty obvious what you are doing and you are no more clever here than in your 'real' job with Ontario. Bye, bye now. :) Mike
 
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