RAT 1 vs. Spyderco's Tenacious (n00b here, looking for some tips.)

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nimrod337

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Apr 24, 2013
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Okay, I'm new to the site. I have been lurking the last week or two, as I am ready to purchase a new knife. And as many of you know, some of the best (if not all of the best) information about purchasing things (tools especially) online, comes from message boards. So you guys are the knife experts, and now I wish to glean some information from you, if you're willing. (also, not sure if this is the right spot for this, so mods, please move if necessary.)

I have a knife already, it is my EDC, as it is my only knife. It is a CKRT M16-KZ. I used to have the non Z version, with aluminum handle (loved that knife), but now I just am left with my backup. It's a great knife, but I got it just to use and abuse, and now I think I am ready for a new one (that, or I'm starting to get addicted.)

My dream knife is the Benchmade 940, but it is quite a bit out of my pricerange as a broke-ass student. So, I told myself I can get a knife in the middle-ground, and if I take care of it, not lose it, break it, or some other horrible thing; I will buy myself the Benchmade at this time of year, 2014.

So, on to the question: Spyderco's endura, Ontario RAT1, or other?
Here's what I want in a knife: no particular order.

-Tough; I often use my knife for less-than-knife duties. I think of my knife as a tool, and why own it, if you're afraid to use it. I love the look of scratches on my tools from hard use.
<3.5 inches. I don't want the knife to be huge. I don't want to scare people with it, as I already get some flack for my current knife.
-Thin/lightish. I don't really mind the weight, but I don't want it to be pulling my jeans off. I will be carrying it everyday, so it needs to fit in a pocket, and not be noticed too much.
-plain edge blade. I am going to buy a sharpening stone, and I want to start practicing keeping the edge on my knife, which brings me to my next point:
-Good steel. This is definitely my weakest point, knowledge-wise. I know nothing about steel types, carbon- whatchajiggits, numbers, letters, hardness, etc... Perhaps a link to some sort of steel breakdown for those of us completely ignorant on the subject.
-nice feel. I know this is subjective, but there are some knifes you can just pick up, and it feels "cheap" I want a nice feel to my knife. I loved the feel of cold, brushed aluminum on my first knife, but it seems most don't like aluminum scales, so it's a tough pick.
Cheap*** This one I actually care about. I do not want to spend more than $50 on a knife.

So I've narrowed it down to two choices (so far. Please feel free to make other suggestions.)

1. Spyderco Tenacious: tenacious is in the name!! It's gotta be tough. People love Spyderco, and I see this knife's name thrown around a lot in the EDC threads. The handle is G10, which seems to be liked amongst y'all. And I can find them for around $45.

2. Ontario's RAT1. nothing but good things ever said about this knife (except the cheap scales, but I'm getting to that). If I go this route, I would look into replacing the cheap plastic scales. This again, is something I have no idea where to begin. I'm sure there are aftermarket parts for knives, as there is for EVERYTHING; I just don't know where. This is a place I could use some tips.

Okay, there's a third: Kershaw Skyline. I haven't heard a whole lot about this knife, but it looks simple, and elagent, and it's pretty cheap.


I love the look of a black blade, so any with black blades are a plus.


Also, any recommendations about sharpening stones? Again, cheap is the most important attribute, but I will make exceptions for highly recommended items.

Thanks
 
The Endura is a great choice-- I've been using one for a while, myself. If you think the size may be a little much, The step down to a Delica isn't that bad [I've owned that one for quite some time too]. You really can't go wrong with VG-10 steel, and it is quite affordable in Spyderco's lineup. You can get either the Endura or Delica with a black blade.

The Skyline makes for a great EDC as well, although I don't carry it as often due to the steel rusting on me.

Others will mention trying out the Tenacious first, due to it's similarity to the RAT 1, but since you've already considered the Endura, I'd say forget about the Tenacious.

Welcome to the Forums, see you around!

EDIT-- Just realized you mentioned the Tenacious in the OP... it is a great knife, I actually don't really have any problems with it. I just think the Endura and Delica are better knives.
 
If you really want a 940, save up for it. I am also a broke college student, so I feel your pain. Buying a cheaper knife won't make it any better, you'll still want a 940. My suggestion would be to save up for it, as well as hunting for a used one.

To answer the OP's question, go for the RAT 1. I have a Tenacious and had a RAT 1, and I can honestly say the RAT is a better knife.
 
Endura is great! Go with that!
Otherwise I'd check out the Tenacious over a Skyline, but haven't tried a Rat-1
 
You can't go wrong with either of your main picks. The steels will probably perform similar enough to where you couldn't tell the difference, they will both be okay steels to learn sharpening on as they aren't too wear resistant. But you'll have to sharpen them more often than something with vg10, s30v, etc... Both have good grinds, decent ergos, etc... I only really have experience with the Tenacious, so that's all i can really recommend.

The Enduras and Delicas are technically the "better" knife than the tenacious, IMO. But they have the FRN handles, which are a light weight "plastic" feeling handle. This sometimes makes people feel they are cheaper than something with g10, which has a more substantial feel in hand. However FRN is a ridiculously tough material, and it gives the advantage of lightweight in the pocket. But some people just can't get past that feel of the light weight being not as quality.

I took my Tenacious camping when it was new, and blew my friends mind doing wood work. Stuff any well built and razor sharp knife could do, but he's used to not very sharp knives. Now he carries a Spyderco Persistence :p
 
First off most people here have spider knives i am not big fan.

the rat1, which i have, has been made a long time and very nice knife - try each out and buy the one that fits your hand the steel is aus-6 the spider is china steel china made

twain is not china and aus-6 has been around a long time - these weird china steels? i have my doubts

buy both and report back?

seriously try it, buy what fits your hand and what deploys the best for you
 
Now I would love to be able to buy both, and use the one I like better, but part of the reason I am buying a cheaper knife to begin with is just that-- It's cheaper.

The one thing I am now slightly concerned about is the size. Both these knives are larger than my current knife. This sort of turns me towards the Delica, as recommended earlier, but I just happen to be one of those people that can't get past the cheap plastic feel of cheap plastic. Like I said earlier, aluminum scales are ideal, but not realistic.

This brings me to my other questions: Replacement scales for the RAT1? Do they exist? Where, and how much?

and my last question: Best sharpening stone? (cheap?)

Thanks for all the replies already!
 
Go with the spyderco Tenacious, high quality and a great cutting tool that you will enjoy to use. Personally I don't care for the Rat1 all that much, its good but not as comfortable.

For sharpening look to the Norton combo India stone and strop with compound of your choice.
 
I am starting sing spider man song in my head, spiders and more spiders - I have the rat1 - i have owned spiders and kersaw using the same deployment, probably licienced, and i just do not like it. thumb and top flip combo is the only way too go for carry knife.

i been here onlyone day, everyone must hate me since i see so many (spid-co). But I did decide too try one with a bigger hole i got it on my ebay que.

RAT1 is a great knife, with a long track record but again try it - get from amazon and send it back if you do not like it.

ok i'l got get off ....spider sound is going my head spider man.... spider man......
 
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In terms of sharpening stones, I would hunt around eBay for a dual sided stone with about 400 grit on one side, and 1500+ on the other. You'd want one about 6-8 inches long and at least 2 inches wide. Too small and you can't get a proper stroke on your knife. You'll probably pay the same amount as you would for your knife.

There are some machines around that allow you to fix the cut at any angle that aren't too expensive. I've seen an all steel model on eBay for under $40. You won't learn to freehand with them, but they can give you a pretty good edge without needing the skill.

Custom scales exist, but from what I've seen they cost three to four times as much as the knife. The RAT 1 is a cheap knife, I think it's best to enjoy it as such.

Of the two knives you list, it depends what you like. The RAT 1 is most similar to my favourite budget knife (the Enlan EL01) and I think you can get it for two thirds of the cost of a Tenacious (eBay prices). I've just bought an Endura myself, and am looking forward to getting my hands on it, but I don't think I'd want to be practicing sharpening on the VG10.
 
Just get it over with and buy both:) I did. Rat 1 is a tank. Tenacious is sexier. I suppose if I was forced to choose, I would get the Rat 1.
 
If you're feeling the Rat1 but think it's too big, check out the Rat2. I haven't tried it yet but it seems to be the same quality knife in a smaller package.
 
The Rat 1 is available with black blade and G-10 scales. Amazon has them for less than $40. I just bought one, and am very impressed with the quality.
 
Nimrod, your OP is honestly freaking me out a bit, so much so that I had to register to post this after like 6 months lurking around.

I carried a CRKT M16-12zer for about 2 years and it served fine for me, even though now I know there is much better options out. One of the things that I really liked on m16 was the buttery smooth operation and solid lock up (my blade has no play in any direction).

Anyway, that knife took a beating over the years and I decided to replace it with a Kershaw Skyline. As the Skyline was being shipped I got impatient and went to my local knife store and bought a Spyderco Tenacious. Just like you I read all these great things about these 2 knives in particular and they seemed to stand out as THE "budget" EDC to have. Once I got them both in my hands I noticed that the tenacious is MUCH larger then my m16 or the skyline. Its not so much that it's too heavy or long, but the width of the knife when closed is massive. Its over twice as wide compared to the skyline, and in some of my jeans it doesn't fit nice into that little pocket on the right side. Mine also has a bit of side to side play (huge negative for me) and if I tighten the tension screw so there is no wobble its very hard to open.

I don't have any of these problems with the Skyline. I really like that little knife for its size and nimbleness. The only problem with my Skyline is that my wife likes it too, so for the benefits of household happiness I let her carry it.

So since I don't like my Tenacious and can't carry the Skyline, I decided to buy a Benchmade 940 in S30V. As it turns out, the benchmade 940 is everything I was looking for in a knife and I'd say its one of the best for EDC out there, period. For me its the buttery smooth deployment and bank-vault lockup makes me feel safe. Its also a lot more "gentlemen" and I find that people admire the blade rather then get scared away from it. Its hard to explain the difference in quality with words it is something you just have to hold in your hands for yourself.

So my recommendation would be to just get the 940 and save yourself some money in the long run. I know that's easier said then done and you will probably end up getting a cheaper knife first, but it looks like we have the same mindset and I want to save you the trouble I went through if I can.
 
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Any of the three you narrowed it to would be good choices.

I have a Tenacious and RAT-1. Both provide about the maximum bang-for-the-buck you can get.

Personally, I'd give the nod to the Tenacious for overall value.

The Skyline should work very well for you, for only a tad more money.
 
cant go wrong with either the tenacious of the Rat 1.

2 of my favorite low cost EDC'S & are some of the best knives on the market to last you a life time & a half
 
IUKE12 was one of the people to suggest the RAT 1 to me & i am extremley happy about the purchase
 
If you don't want to cop flak for the look of the knife, the Tenacious is a little more public friendly than the Rat-1, which has a more 'tactical' look to it. I have both knives. My Tenacious is in my EDC rotation, while my Rat-1 rattles around in the bottom of my hunting pack and never gets used.

All that said, in your shoes I would get the Delica. It's smaller, lighter, better steel, and the FRN handles are just fine. It's about as perfect an EDC as you can get, plus it comes in a range of colours which also tend to freak people out less than black.

From top to bottom: Tenacious, Delica 4, Dragonfly 2

Tenacious_Delica_Dragonfly.jpg
 
I have a Tenacious as the Rat Model 1 (I think that is what you are referring to). The RM1 has been my go to EDC knife for me. The Tenacious is great, however it is a bit wide when clipped inside the pocket. Just a preference. The RM1 feels great in my hands (another personal preference as well).

This one is my work horse.
20130425_163600.jpg
 
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