RAT 1 vs. Spyderco's Tenacious (n00b here, looking for some tips.)

Nimrod, if plastic (FRN and such) handles bother you then cross that RAT-1 off of your list. The Tenacious on the other hand has (cheap) G-10 handle slabs. However, in a budget knife you might want to learn to live with FRN. It's a pretty practical material, quite tough too (my old unlined Endura 3 is still working well after years of use).

Out of the knives your mentioned I think the Endura and Delica are head and shoulders above the rest (something that their price reflects, of course). You can pick between the full flat ground models (basically thinner blades that are better at slicing) or the thicker sabre ground ones. Since you mention some hard use, a sabre ground Delica 4 might be your best bet (you can get it with stainless steel handles if you really can't stand FRN).

The Tenacious is a decent knife for the money. It's a very practical design, blade steel isn't great but it's functional. The RAT-1 is probably tougher, and I like AUS-8 better than 8Cr13Mov, but it has those plastic handles you hate and it's bulkier.

The Skyline is a light duty knife. A brilliant design that you just forget is in your pocket, but I wouldn't be to hard on it.
 
Bugout Bill said:
If you really want a 940, save up for it. I am also a broke college student, so I feel your pain. Buying a cheaper knife won't make it any better, you'll still want a 940. My suggestion would be to save up for it, as well as hunting for a used one.

To answer the OP's question, go for the RAT 1. I have a Tenacious and had a RAT 1, and I can honestly say the RAT is a better knife.
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Ditto
 
Realt1me said:
Nimrod, your OP is honestly freaking me out a bit, so much so that I had to register to post this after like 6 months lurking around.

I carried a CRKT M16-12zer for about 2 years and it served fine for me, even though now I know there is much better options out. One of the things that I really liked on m16 was the buttery smooth operation and solid lock up (my blade has no play in any direction).

Anyway, that knife took a beating over the years and I decided to replace it with a Kershaw Skyline. As the Skyline was being shipped I got impatient and went to my local knife store and bought a Spyderco Tenacious. Just like you I read all these great things about these 2 knives in particular and they seemed to stand out as THE "budget" EDC to have. Once I got them both in my hands I noticed that the tenacious is MUCH larger then my m16 or the skyline. Its not so much that it's too heavy or long, but the width of the knife when closed is massive. Its over twice as wide compared to the skyline, and in some of my jeans it doesn't fit nice into that little pocket on the right side. Mine also has a bit of side to side play (huge negative for me) and if I tighten the tension screw so there is no wobble its very hard to open.

I don't have any of these problems with the Skyline. I really like that little knife for its size and nimbleness. The only problem with my Skyline is that my wife likes it too, so for the benefits of household happiness I let her carry it.

So since I don't like my Tenacious and can't carry the Skyline, I decided to buy a Benchmade 940 in S30V. As it turns out, the benchmade 940 is everything I was looking for in a knife and I'd say its one of the best for EDC out there, period. For me its the buttery smooth deployment and bank-vault lockup makes me feel safe. Its also a lot more "gentlemen" and I find that people admire the blade rather then get scared away from it. Its hard to explain the difference in quality with words it is something you just have to hold in your hands for yourself.

So my recommendation would be to just get the 940 and save yourself some money in the long run. I know that's easier said then done and you will probably end up getting a cheaper knife first, but it looks like we have the same mindset and I want to save you the trouble I went through if I can.
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dude your in the spiders nest, shhhhhh, or widow of the web will get ya - from the movie "Kull" mpy krull or maybe it is the other one? Blackfortress you got it!

Sulaco said:
Ditto
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zero tolerance is cheaper - save up the custom hinder of 2012 or look at the new 2013, video is out. you can pre order them at discount from the big seller of kersaw. i have no affliation with any knife seller or company - i do gun shows once a decade. But i do own over 300 knives.
 
I don't think there is a need to replace the scales on the RAT. Just because some knives have better quality scale materials doesn't mean the scales on the RAT-1 don't work. They do and they work just fine. They are part of what spec's the knife to it's price point. If you want better scales, save more and go for something else.

But honestly, when I bought my truck, I got the model with the features I wanted. I didn't get the model with ALL of the features just because they were available. Just get what works best for you and don't fall in to the trap of thinking only G10 or only titanium is acceptable. It's just not so.

As for your choice, I much prefer the RAT-1 (I own both) but the Tenacious is lighter, slimmer and probably easier to carry as an EDC.

Personally I'd just save up for the 940 (I also own it).
 
Between the RAT-1 and Tenacious, I'd pick the RAT-1 without a second thought. If you're set on Spyderco, though, I'd highly recommend saving up the additional $15-20 or so and get an Endura or Delica instead. I'd pick either of those over the RAT-1 in a heartbeat, and the RAT-1 is a very good knife.

The RAT-1 is very solidly built knife. Good ergos, good blade steel, and sturdy handle and lockup. It is a not a small knife, and depending on what else you're carrying in your pockets, it can be rather noticeable. The AUS-8 blade steel is pretty good. Takes a fine edge with decent retention.

The Tenacious seems like it should be good, but I found it a bit bulky and awkward to carry and handle. The thin length of G10 behind the liner lock really digs into your finger, and the sharpened edge of the blade closes right down on your thumb when disengaging the lock if you're not careful. The blade steel (8Cr13MoV) is the Chinese approximate equivalent to the Japanese AUS-8. It's a decent blade steel with most of the same properties as AUS-8. I find I can get a more consistent and finer edge on my AUS-8 knives, but that may be limits from my sharpening skills and/or differences the blade geometry on the different knives.

The Endura and Delica are very similar. Both have very refined-feeling ergonomics that is difficult to describe. They may have FRN handles and look like plasticky, but they have a more solid feel to them than the Tenacious (even with the G10 scales and full liners). The steel (VG10) is also head and shoulders above 8Cr13MoV. It takes a fantastic edge and holds it for quite a while. I've read some accounts of it being prone to chipping, but I've not experienced anything of the sort.

The Skyline is a good, slim knife that will stay almost unnoticeable while clipped in your pocket. The Leek is another I really like for the same reason. Both are very functional and deceptively tough knives. You're not going to be able to pry a door off its hinges with them, but they'll cut boxes, blister pack, rope, zip ties, food, and most other things without issue. The Blur is another excellent Kershaw offering worth considering. The Sandvik 14C28N used in these is a bit better than AUS-8 in just about every regard (sharpens up well, good wear resistance, good toughness, good corrosion resistance).

Here's a size comparison of the ones mentioned. From left to right: RAT-1, Tenacious, Endura, Delica, Blur, Skyline, Leek.
1062343_comparison1_800x525.jpg
 
Honestly, you're fine with your CRKT for now, right? Just save up, save cash by refraining from snacks, drinks, and other purchases, and soon you'll have the $$$ you need for the Benchmade. If you know where to look you can save a lot of money off the MSRP. This is how I got my 51 Morpho.
 
Okay, thanks a lot guys. I tallied the votes, and here's what I got:

RAT1: 7
Tenacious: 5
Neither (go for the BM): 5
and both: 2

Hahaha! It's no wonder people tell you to guard your wallet around this site. I think I will end up with a RAT1, but for now, I will just look into a sharpener, and hone my skills (pun intended) with it while I'm saving up for the BM940. I also have a little itch in the back of my mind for a Sage2... Stupid knife websites...

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the wisdom of others more experienced than I. Keep it up, and I'll be lurking.
 
the perk the the tenacious is you can really high polish it with realitive easy.....

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If you feel so inclined
 
The rat 1 is great. I don't have experience with the other knives but the rat 1 is awesome. The scales are slippery but the way the handle is shaped locks your hand in. The only bad thing is that the black coating sucks. I think you should get the rat. I also was deciding with those same knives. But the rat 1 literally feels like a 50 dollar knife.
 
(WARNING: another n00b here)

If I may add another alternative for your consideration: a Byrd Cara Cara 2. Basically a Spyderco-produced knive (based heavily on the Endura design), but made in China w/ less expensive materials (like 8Cr13MoV -- the same steel as in the Tenacious -- instead of the Endura's VG-10). Biggest difference between it and the others in mind (Tenacious, RAT I, Skyline) is that it's a lockback instead of a liner lock. Also tends to be less expensive than the Tenacious (even w/ the G-10 handles; FRN- or steel-handled models are priced even lower). It may not have the cache or collectibility or coolness of a Spyderco, but as a "working/beater" knife it's worth a look, IMO.

As for sharpening stones . . . Well, that depends on your experience sharpening knives, and how confident you are at sharpening. If you're a TOTAL novice (like me -- I DID warn you that I'm a n00b), and you worry about making a dull edge worse on a whetstone, what you might consider is a knife sharpener using rods (ceramic and/or diamond-coated) set at preset angles -- a lot less worrisome. The Spyderco Sharpmaker is one that gets recommended a lot on these boards -- but that can run close to $50. Lansky makes a "Turn Box" sharpener that isn't as robust as the Sharpmaker, but it can let you do some basic sharpening for under $15 (under $25 if you go for the one w/ diamond rods).
 
Damn! This is a tough call. I carried the skyline for 2 yrs as my edc. Love that knife. It is lightweight, holds an edge pretty well and flicks open like a dream. I ultimately decided to replace it with something a little bigger and a little tougher. I bought a RAT 1 and an endura. The endura is a little longer than I would like, but the quality is definately noticeable. The RAT probably sees the most carry time of the bunch. You can get one with a black blade for about $35 last I checked. They also have a few color options. The handles are fine for me. It's a tough knife and I have no complaints with it.
 
Out of the Tenacious, Rat 1 & Skyline I would choose the Rat 1 and I'm a Spyderco fan. The Rat 1 is a work horse an excellent value but is something I would categorize as a beater, loaner or truck knife, not something that would make my EDC rotation. While the Tenacious is well made for the price point I just don't care for the design or function and gifted all 5 of the knives I acquired in that series to my nephews. I would choose the Endura, Delica or Stretch (my favorite of these 3) over your short list. They have been long time big sellers for a reason.
 
Both are great but I believe that everyone should try a Tenacious. I have yet to meet a person that didn't care for it at all. It's a great way to check out the Spyderco hole.
 
Zombie thread.... even the op hasn't been on in a year.
 
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