RAT RC-4 vs. BR Bravo-1

[Skrapmetal]

I think you're right.:thumbup:

I can always let my 17 year old son carry the "other" one that I'm not carrying. Besides, it IS good to have that backup for the Zombies.

Appreciate the input, Everyone. That's some great comparos and as I suspected they are pretty evenly matched knives.

Being a former Marine(skepticism aside as to the testing) I'm gonna go with the Bravo-1 first with the leather sheath hopefully. I like that traditional combo for camping.

You'll certainly be happy. As was mentioned a couple posts up, the kydex sheath that comes with the Bravo 1 isn't that great. I took the belt look off mine and use it for my drop-in-pocket sheath for EDC, but I've also got the leather sheath. Both knives have Sharpshooter leather sheaths available, and they're really great sheaths.

For the mentioned slippery handles on the Bravo 1, wash the knife with some hot water and Dawn when you get it. They use a wax-based polish on the handles and it leaves them a bit slippery. The Matte finish handle scales might be a bit better, too.

 

[HikingMano]

I think you're right.:thumbup:

I can always let my 17 year old son carry the "other" one that I'm not carrying. Besides, it IS good to have that backup for the Zombies.

An excellent idea

Let us know how it works out for you! :thumbup:

 

[KeithAM]

I had a Bravo-1 but never used it. The thumb ramp was in the wrong place for my hand, and the G-10 was too slick for my liking. I also wasn't fond of the kydex sheath that came with it. I guess I could have done things to address these issues but instead I wound up getting a BRKT Gameskeeper that I like a lot. It is the knife that led to the Bravo-1. I prefer the Gameskeeper because of the choil and lack of thumb ramp.

I got an RC-4 but haven't used it much -- I got an RC-3 at about the same time and have wound up favoring it and using it as an EDC. I like the design of both of these RAT Cutlery Co. knives -- and the canvas micarta on the tan models (which I got) is very grippy. The RC-3 is everthing you need in a fixed blade EDC and nothing you don't need.

 

[brandonc]

1) RAT Cutlery wasn't yet created when these "tests" took place.

Since 1997, Randall's Adventure & Training™ (RAT™) has designed no-nonsense, affordable field knives specifically targeted to military, law enforcement, and the special operations community.

The testing was done around 2006.

2) The only person privy to the results of these "tests" is apparently the owner of BRK&T.

No knife companies were notified of the testing.

3) The only place I've seen these "tests" mentioned is in ad copy for the Bravo-1 and in posts started by the owner of BRK&T.

Duh, why the hell would opposing knife companies want to advertise this?

4) The Bravo-1 doesn't have an N.S.N. that I've ever seen.

That hardly proves that Mike Stewart, the owner of BRKT is a liar, which you are implying.

 

[3Guardsmen]

The testing was done around 2006.

Dude, I guess you're just a little slow! I said that RAT Cutlery wasn't created yet, I didn't say RAT hadn't been designing knives. The only RATs available at the time of the "tests" were those made by Ontario, which I've found to be vastly inferior to the RAT Cutlery knives.

No knife companies were notified of the testing.

Except BRK&T. Mike Stewart claims to have been informed of the names of other manufacturers whose products failed the "tests."

Duh, why the hell would opposing knife companies want to advertise this?

When did I ever say anything about opposing knife companies? I'm saying I haven't been able to find any info about the tests anywhere, including Marine Corps publications.

That hardly proves that Mike Stewart, the owner of BRKT is a liar, which you are implying.

Never said it did. I'm saying I find it very strange that a specific model of knife was requested to be made to spec for the Training Division of Marine Recon, only to be unavailable for Government issue, instead, only being available for private purchase.

You seem to be the type of person who believes everything he reads. I'm not that kind of person.

Regards,
3G

 

[shunsui]

IIRC Mike Stewart is very fond of his Canadian Special, although a lot of people go nuts for the Fox River and Aurora models. I think the Bravo-1 is very popular, but not the best Bark River 4 incher. I think it comes down to subtle differences in what you want to do with the knife.

 

[newknife]

I've owned both and I prefer the Bravo-1. I think the convex edge cuts better and the handle works better for me. I never could get used to the handle on the RC-4 (a little small and thin) though the build quality of the knife was excellent.

 

[Sardukar]

Hi this is my second post here!!!
I know that the competition is between RAT and Bravo-1 but when we look for this type of knives i vote for F1 Fallkinven because it's the best knife for hunt, survival and every day use. The price is hight but the quality is very very hight. I have one for more than 6 mounts and i used almost every day. In the forest I split wood make fire, after that I cut food and I never sharp it.

 

[chuckinohio]

And just to throw this in the mix, in case you haven't considered it, take a look at the BRKT Gunny. I just got one, and it might replace the Bravo-1 at the top spot for a production fixed. The handle is quite a bit smaller though, so the jury is still out on it...

Russell, just let me know when you decide that the gunny is your new fave and want to unload that CPM Bravo

I now own the A-2 thumbramp Bravo in Russells first pic, and it made me a believer in all the hype that the knife receives.

First off the knife is just plain comfortable in the hand, moreso to me than the RAT knives that I own. I own several Ontario RATs, not RAT RATs, but with the handle shape being so similar I feel qualified to speak on the subject.
The RAT handles are comfortable and entirely utilitarian, but the Bravo handle just seems to be molded to fit my hand. The Rat handle seems to afford a bit more purchase due to the texture of the scales, but the Bravo handle grips every bit as securely due to its shape fitting the hand so well.

Chuck

 

[HikingMano]

Russell, just let me know when you decide that the gunny is your new fave and want to unload that CPM Bravo

Chuck, my friend, you'll be the first to know :thumbup:. Though I think this CPM Bravo is a keeper, one to pass down to the kids.

 

[kgd]

I think this one comes down more to aesthetics than performance. They are both great knives in my books. I tend to be an RC-fan and have all their models except the RC-5 so I'm trying to stay clear of my brand loyalty bias.

I have handled a Bravo-1 from a friend and thought is was a great knife. Very comfortable in the grip. I didn't like the thumb ramp much, but it is definitely and awesome blade to have. The full convex grind works great!

As for the RC-4, I just love mine but over time I did make some modifications, like removing the coating and convexing the edge and that just made me love the knife even more. For me, the handle fits perfect and I find that when working with knives I tend to prefer a thinner grip even though a wider grip feels more comfy when holding it, I find a thinner grip results in less hand fatigue during actual use. These are things that everybody has to work out for themselves, so what one person likes in a grip may not translate into what another person like.

I also really appreciate that you can have access to Jeff Randall and Mike Perrin on their subforum. The guys are really great and will usually provide a personal response to any questions asked. They even give honest answers. For example they have sometimes recommended other knives than their own line and they rarely bash any other company. As Jeff often states - 'They are just knives', the minutia of analysis we like to go into in the forums rarely translates into actual ability of knives to perform in the field. I know that Mike Stewart can be reached on the 'other' forum, but this is the forum I choose to frequent and part of my brand loyalty to RC has to do with the fact that they choose to make this place their home.

In the end I doubt you will go wrong with either knife. The ability to buy a bravo-1 in CPM154 is an interesting offering, albeit an expensive one. I just might kick in for one of those someday!

 

[HikingMano]

I also really appreciate that you can have access to Jeff Randall and Mike Perrin on their subforum.[...]I know that Mike Stewart can be reached on the 'other' forum, but this is the forum I choose to frequent and part of my brand loyalty to RC has to do with the fact that they choose to make this place their home.

KGD makes an excellent point! :thumbup: Having direct access to the RAT crew like that is really spectacular.

The ability to buy a bravo-1 in CPM154 is an interesting offering, albeit an expensive one. I just might kick in for one of those someday!

Definitely a pretty coin. Aside from my NWA, I've never dropped so much on a blade. I hesitated for a long time before buying that knife, but it came down to my desire to eventually move back to tropical Hawai'i. I figured one of my favorite blades in a great stainless would be a worthwhile investment. I don't know if I would have bought it if I didn't foresee spending most of my time in a humid and wet environment in the future.

If you want to take her for a spin later KGD, shoot me a PM. You can try it out in one of your wet field courses :thumbup:.

 

[Gator97]

I'd go with A2 steel at 59-60 hrc vs. 1095 at 57HRC.
As far as I know 59-60 is pretty much optimum for A2 at least as far as knives go. And 1095 can be taken above 60HRC safely. At least for the knives 4-5" long anyway.
I do believe heat treatment is very important and HRC alone doesn't define edge holding, but there is no such magic in heat treatment, at least as far as I am concerned that can compensate for 3-4 HRC for the same steel. At least most of the steels have clear guidelines for it.

 

[Skrapmetal]

Honestly, I've got two Bravo 1's. Both identical A2's with Black Canvas Micarta. One user, one safe queen.

Before the year is over, I have every intention of owning a RC-4. Maybe even two.

 

[udtjim]

Take the Handle from The Rat and the blade from the Bravo and you would have the perfect knife.

I have or have had both, I could get by with either but would take a JK over either.

 

[Macchina]

I have both and really like both. In the end, the Bravo-1 is a much nicer knife. It is thick, cuts well, the handle is 3D sculpted and feels great, the convex blade is amazing, and A-2 steel is great.

I really like the RC-4, and both knives are almost perfect, but I give the upper hand to the Bravo-1 any day of the week.

 

[Stainz]

I have neither... but I have a few BRK&T knives and an RC-5. The RC-4 can be ordered from KSF with a Sharpshooter leather sheath and a Bravo-1 can be ordered with one, too, admittedly, for somewhat more. If you like 'natural' handles, the Bravo-1 will come with leather, possibly for less than the Micarta or G10 handled ones with the 'extra' leather sheath. Still, that RC-4 with leather will be less expensive. I have to admit a bias towards leather sheaths.

My initial reaction to the RC-5's MOLLE-style sheath was not positive. My limited use has caused me to reconsider it - especially due to it's decidedly larger size (The RC-5 is .25" thick, while the Bravo-1 is .215" thick - and the RC-4 is ~.190".). Still, in a smaller knife - like the RC-4 or Bravo-1, the leather sheath seems more appropriate. I would think an RC-4 with a leather sheath would be the best choice of the two.

Now, I had the opportunity to buy the Bravo-1 12/07 - but nixed it due to the cost with leather and that thumb ramp. I went with the Gameskeeper, which the Bravo-1 was based on, another .215" hunk of A2 - with a finger guard and a leather sheath - for considerably less than a Bravo-1 - and in natural canvas Micarta. I also bought a North Star and a Fox River, the latter being a close second in my mind to the Gameskeeper. Both are great 'bushcraft'/utility knives - as is that RC-4, I am sure. They are all in the same ballpark - with leather, too. Just another input...

Stainz

PS The RC-5 is a great candidate for convexing... probably a bias there!

 

[kycolonel]

I own a Bravo 1 and have used a RAT (RC-6) on a survival weekend. Both great knives, but my own experience is that the A2 convex on the Bravo will keep an edge noticeably better than the RAT. And, I personally see no use whatsoever for blade coatings, other than the worry that they all eventually chip and possibly get into food prep- very nasty stuff that should never be ingested in any quantity. A stripped RC that has been properly convexed may be a different story.

 

[Phil Brown]

It seems that the impression is being given that the Bravo-1 is fancy and the RC-4 is utilitarian. This is actually false. The RAT is what it is, utilitarian, but with good fit and finish. It's hardly what you'd call "down and dirty." It will, however, take whatever you throw at it. The Bravo-1, however, can be many different things.

In its most basic form, it has a thick, convex ground A2 blade, micarta scales, and is held together by two stainless bolts - which are ground flush with the scales, and certainly as tough as the RAT's fasteners. It's overbuilt for sure. The fit and finish are excellent by any standard, but it is still focused on utility. Now, if you want more, then Bark River is happy to give it to you: any color of G-10 or micarta, exotic woods, horn, malachite spacers, liners, brass pins, CPM-154 blade, leather sheath with loop for matching firesteel... the possibilities are endless. And the thumb ramp is strictly optional. If you don't like anything about your Bravo-1, you can send it back to Bark River and they'll grind, glue, and polish whatever your heart desires. This is a company with 94 standard handle materials, after all.

Really, it comes down to preference. You need to handle both. If you feel the need to customize, you're probably going to end up with a Bravo-1. If you prefer the profile of the RC-4, then there you go. One thing worth mentioning is that BRKT offers a matte finish on G-10 and micarta that should satisfy those looking for rougher/grippier handles. I, personally, have both polished G-10 and micarta on my Barkies, and find the grip to be adequate for all tasks.

I don't think toughness really enters into the argument, because we're getting into territory where the knives greatly exceed our needs. I am just getting into RAT, so I don't know the full capabilities of the RC-4 yet, but I'm willing to bet that both of these knives are tougher than any of us!

 

[TXBulldawg]

Between the two (I have both), I prefer the Bravo-1. That's just me, though. Both are good knives. Both will take any punishment you can dish out. Both have bullet-proof warranties. I think what it comes down to for most folks is personal preference. For me, there are a couple of functional and aesthetic differences that push me to prefer the Bravo. I'm not a raving fan-boy of either, so these are just my simple observations.

My main beef with the RC-4 is that the handle is on the small side (I don't have particularly large hands). It's a bit too skinny, but I can deal with that. I can't deal with the shortness as easily, though. It's okay when choked up on the choil, but when I want to get a nice full grip on the knife, it just doesn't balance out right.

I don't much care for the coated blade. Yes, it's protective and will help keep rust/corrosion to a minimum until it starts flaking, but I've found that it's thick and course enough that it can somewhat hinder performance in some areas.

The RC-4 has a decent sheath system as it is. I like it's funtionality in terms of strapping it to a pack or something, but I don't need a big ol' honkin' molle sheath to carry a knife on my belt. I like the kydex part... I'll probably fashion a simple lower-profile leather belt loop to attach to it. There's only the one optional leather sheath that I know of, and I simply don't care for the style. I ended up making my own:

The big win for the Bravo-1, IMO, is the handle. The handle fits my medium sized hands like a glove. Any grip I can think of with this knife feels great.

The Bravo-1 comes with a variety of handle materials. Some can be slick (which is easily remedied), while others can be quite grippy. If you want tacticool, you can get any of the various micartas. If you want a hint of old school, you can get bone, stag, or any number of woods.

If you're going to be whittling intricate miniature figurines with it, look elsewhere. The blade's a thick one, but it's a nice cutter regardless of that thickness. Would I complain if they made it thinner? No (I'm sure someone would), but the thickness isn't going to hinder anything I'm going to use the blade for.

The Bravo has a ramp. This seems to cause a lot of grumbling amongst the masses. If you don't like it, grind it down (or have BRKT do it, or order one without). It doesn't bother me, but who knows - maybe I'll grind it down one day.

BRKT's main weakness, IMO, is in their sheaths. I have no experience with the Bravo-1 kydex, but I don't think I'd like it. Looks to ride way too high for my taste. My Bravo came with the old school leather sheath from Sharpshooter which is okay, but nothing special. I generally don't care for Sharpshooter's leather. For reasons unknown to me, a lot of people rave about the Sharpshooter leather sheaths, but I've been less than impressed with the leather they use for their supplied sheaths. (In all fairness, their sheaths are mass-produced low cost items that shouldn't be confused with high-dollar custom pieces... and they fall under BRKT's bullet-proof warranty, as well.) All of that leather hate being said, I picked up a Loveless style pouch for the Bravo-1 from KSF shortly after they came out with them, and I love it. It's the first Sharpshooter sheath I've personally had that has even come close to living up to their claims of high quality.