Rat Trap Warranty....Help Needed

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Eric Isaacson

Eric Isaacson

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We would like your input regarding the warranty on the folder, since we have always let the customer decide any warranty issues we wanted to let you help us decide this one as well.

Because of the larger number of small parts, moving parts and ease of disassembly (which may include improper re-assembly) we think it is necessary to clarify the warranty on the folder.

In order to keep the prices low on the folder we need to avoid getting bogged down with fixing other's mistakes, such as stripped threads, lost bushings, etc. . .

Specifically what we want is a warranty that is fair to the customer and fair to Swamp Rat Knife Works. We are open for suggestions and are very excited about having you, our friends and fellow Rats, work with us to construct the new Swamp Rat folder warranty.

:D:D
 
Have it be the same as the fixed blades as far as covering breakage. Not loss of parts or mistakes someone makes taking it apart or putting it back together. Just cover gross failure.

Just a thought.
 
While I'm not a customer (yet) I have a few suggestions relating to the small parts matter. Small relatively inexpensive parts like a pivot washer or clip, the screws etc, should be available for a small fee+ postage to the user should they need replacements. I think this is better than having to send your knife back because you just happened to be careless and lost a pivot washer or screw. If a knife is sent back with that sort of problem, charge them return postage and the cost of the parts+ labor. Obviously larger parts like blades, scales, liners etc. shouldnt be available or only available on a per case basis, like say someone dropped the knife off a 3 story building while cutting something and one of the scales got a large chunk broken off (not really likely I know) and wants to fix it themselves. Actually damage of that sort should be inspected by SRKW in case anything else is broken.

The pivot parts and lock interface should be unconditionally guaranteed against non-deliberate wear, IE: unless they took a grinder to the blade tang or liner to "tweak the action". The swamp rat folder doesnt seem particularly suitable for prying from what I've seen, it's a cutting tool, so it's important that you stress that the blade can't be used to pry open small battle tanks as many of your customers have come to expect from your fixed blade line. Beyond that I say it's mostly a judgement call on your part and the customer.
 
I agree with Yoda. Charge people postage to replace small parts that they lost, and take care of the big damage in the shop.
 
Paradiggum said:
Have it be the same as the fixed blades as far as covering breakage. Not loss of parts or mistakes someone makes taking it apart or putting it back together. Just cover gross failure.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Completly agree.

Thanks for asking. :D
 
I personally like to repair and tweak my knives myself so I would not expect a company to warranttee a problem I created, but I would like to be able to obtain parts at my expense. I agree with the others in that the major parts be warranteed against failure that wasn't caused by abuse.
 
Agree with the sentiments above.

Eric, do you have a production photo you could share with us? It would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
I agree. I think you should extend a strong guarantee on the blade and on the handle as individual pieces. A charge that covers the small pieces and postage would be the only fair thing for The Swamp. Adding some promise about how fast the small parts would ship would add some meat to the guarantee. As much as people hate to be without their equipment...setting that expectation would help...even for a charge. In fact, I am generally willing to pay to have something fixed even if it is covered if I can get it back faster.
 
I do agree, that the blade should be covered against breakage and the complete handle against breakage and deformation too (not the single scale or liner alone).

The small parts should be covered considering their usage. That means, the screws should work without being destroyed by simply screwing them in or out. Quality screws please.

Loosing parts can´t be covered. How? It is the customers failue to loose a part if the knife is disasampled.

The warranty should follow the knife, not the original owner. That would make the knife more valuable.

Something like:

"We warrant the owner of the knife, that it is free of defects in workmanship and material. We warrant, that this knife will not break or deform under usage, but we exclude willingly dectruction. (That means, if somebody aims to break it, it is for his own pleasure but leaves SRKW out). We will at our decision repair or replace any knife send in to SRKW. Parts lost are not covered by this warranty."

OK, this is the best i can get out of my german tongue. But that´s what i would expect at first sight.

I mean i trusted SRKW so far, that i ordered one without knowing if they will limit the warranty down to an average warranty.
 
I just hope you guys never get carried away with warnings like the rest of the world...

"this cup contains hot liquid, if you spill it in your lap please do not sue us"

"not wearing this helmet properly may result in injury or death"

"not chewing our food with your mouth closed voids the implied warranty of good taste"

"taking our folding knives apart may result in your feeling kind of stupid, don't call us to fix the problem, you really are stupid"
 
I didn't mean to suggest you wouldn't be able to get the small parts if you lost them or something. I just meant it should be on the Swamps dime. The only reason I can think that little things like that should be covered is if say you take it out of the box and a screw falls out because it's stripped. Most companies cover workmanship issues anyway so I didn't even think to mention it. We all know these Rats go above and beyond.
 
While I will not be buying this knife, do solely to the fact it is tip down carry only, I am still going to yap my flap. I would like to see your warranty include everything except damage caused by disassembly, i.e. stripped/lost screws/parts. This is a huge selling point as there are alot of competition at this price point and it just may tip the scales in your favor. I mean other than brand loyalty what would set this knife apart from say a lone wolf, spyderco or BM knife? I also definitely think you should make all of the small parts available for purchase and charge return shipping for all repairs made to knives, flat rate shipping for CONUS of say $15 or something.

I agree with Mtnclimber69 about getting carried away with warnings as they are a huge turnoff and sometimes an insult to the consumer. Also kindly make a tip up carry option in the near future, please.
 
Small parts should be charged. Provide a price list or create a spare parts kit that we can purchase if we choose to fix the folder ourselves.

If we do not want to fix the blade ourselves, we should have the option to mail the folder back and have you fix it for us. Just charge us accordingly for the parts and postage.

Blade should be under the same warantee as the fixed blades. If the folder malfunctions durring usage regardless of abuse, the folder should still fall under the famous swamprat waranty.

The waranty should not be covered if the user damages it by taking it part. This would not be considred usage. It would be considered user malfunction rather than product malfunction.
 
Mtnclimber69 said:
"taking our folding knives apart may result in your feeling kind of stupid, don't call us to fix the problem, you really are stupid"
Click to expand...

THIS ONE IS GREAT!!!! Take it!!!! :D
 
randucci said:
I personally like to repair and tweak my knives myself so I would not expect a company to warranttee a problem I created, but I would like to be able to obtain parts at my expense. I agree with the others in that the major parts be warranteed against failure that wasn't caused by abuse.
Click to expand...

I like to tinker, as well, so I agree with randucci on this one.

I think the warranty could go something like this:
This knife is warranted against manufacturing defects and failures. Intentional distruction is just silly, so don't even ask!
If you take it apart and need SRKW to put it back together again: it'll cost ya (a nominal fee).
If you take it apart and loose some parts, we can sell you the parts you need (+ shipping and handling).
Go a little too far with that scale mod and need a replacement scale? They are available for purchase.
Liners are a little more trickey (especially the lock side) but we will work with you on a case by case basis.

Probably should be another line or two, but can't think of them right now.

Hope there are some useful ideas there...
 
One of the things that made me want a swamp rat knife was the incredable guarentee that you guys offer. I like the idea of having a knife that I don't have to worry about. To be frankly honest I was planning on buying a Rat Trap to compliment my new sebenza as my hard use folder. The main reason I leaned towards Swamp Rat was for the guarentee. With out the guarentee there isn't much that seperates this knife from every other folder out there. Not covering others mistakes is one thing but when It starts to limit the tasks I can perform with the knife is when it is the same run of the mill guarentee that every other company makes. This is a swamp rat remember? If I want to try to cut apart a refrigerator where do I get my knife? Swamprat or Busse of course. The folder should be no exception! As it is this quality that sets your company apart from the rest. I think the ONLY exclusion should be for reasembling the folder if some one screws up, and not covering any customized parts. Although you should sell people the parts they need if they do loose stuff.

For the people who ordered the knife before this change of the warrenty you guys should honor your original guarentee that covers everything. I have no doubt in my mind that for some of them the warenty was a deciding factor in their choice to buy this knife.
 
As much as I'd like to see the Swamp Rat unconditional warranty on the folder, I also see where that could put Swamp Rat.

A folder is just a fixed blade that is pre-broken in the middle. A folder is made to fold, and under enough force, it will!

I would, however, like to see parts available for sale. Everything but the liners and the blade should be available for a reasonable price.
 
A few thoughts -

How much abuse will it take? SR fixed blades have been tortured and shown to hold up to pretty extreme situations. It makes sense to go beat the folder to failure, and see where that line is. Then you can give the user a good idea of what it will and won't do, and set a warranty within those bounds. Also, S30V is a new steel for the shop, so you should figure out how it performs with your heat treat etc.

What is your profit maragin? (rhetorical) Once you know that, you can figure out what sort of repairs you can absorb and not go broke. One of the dangers of a "no limits" warranty along with a hard-use reputation is that people will test it. If you really try, it's possible to break anything (hmmmm....I wonder if I can chop through an engine block with my Heavy Ordinance Steel Heart at -170 degrees Fahrenheit?). It's also been known to happen that people will buy a (used) knife, purposefully break it, then ask for a new one or a refund. That's why many companies have gone to an "original owner" policy.

I think a generous warranty would be transferrable to subsequent owners. I also think it would cover gross edge failure, blade breakage, and handle breakage. Small parts (screws, clip, etc.) that failed would be sent to the user free, or replaced at the factory for the cost of postage. It would not cover cosmetic blemishes. It would not cover gross failure at the pivot, as would occur if prying with greater than x amount of lateral force. (It is a folder, after all, and this is the weak point. If you want a small pointy prybar, get a Howler) Your users should have an idea of how much lateral force the RT will take - ideally, it would be able to support full body weight with no damage (or still be useable).


YMMV
 
I would think that an unconditional warranty would entice enough sales to more than cover the number of returns that may occur.
 
ROM831 said:
I would think that an unconditional warranty would make entice enough sales to more than cover the number of returns that may occur.
Click to expand...

Yes, i guess that´s right. The number of knifes returned b/c of some craftmansship - failures (fails the spinewhack, uneven grinds and so on...) will be as usual. But the number of knifes returned for defects, say from chopping hard wood ( :D ) will be small.

Most users are serious enough just to enjoy the warranty as a "just if".

So my interest goes to that "simple" designed folder combined with the legendary warranty of the company. Nothing more or less.
 
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