Rattle Snake Bites

[beanbag]

Hey Guys-

I'm heading back to Pine Meadow Lake in Harriman State Park, NY tomorrow for a training hike with Son O' Beanbag.

Here are some pics from a post I did a while ago where I saw a real monster Yellow Phase Eastern Timber Rattlesnake:

The lake:

The place where we saw the snake:

And the snake. It was the biggest I've seen, between 5-6 feet long:

Real quick question (if it's already been discussed and I could have found the answer by searching, well sorry)-

What do you do if you get bit by one of things?

 

[Shotgun]

Stay calm and get to a hospital.

 

[Lycosa]

That's one gorgeous TR! thanks for the pix.
Yer GTG just dunt step on or get one riled up. Timbers are a very docile rattlesnake.
Shotgun is correct.
rolf

 

[BOSS1]

That is one big ol' snake. I am thankful to live in a part of the country that doesn't have really any serious venomous snakes (tho we have some spiders like the Brown Recluse). I like snakes from a distance and/or behind glass. I worry less about myself and more about the little ones and particularly the pooch, as he would probably not understand Mr. Slither isn't a toy and/or doesn't want to play. Tho I know most snakes sense us coming and move out of the way.

Thanks for the photos tho, looks like a nice lake.

Also, I would add remove said snake before going to hospital...they're not fans of such generally.

BOSS

 

[Woods Walker]

Harriman State Park and the AT within NY/CT to the Hemlocks lean-to in MA has a higher population of Timbers than most people might expect. They avoid conflict but the population has a very nasty hemotoxic venom. 25% of the time they give a dry bite but if hit get medical help ASAP. They are fully capable of killing a full grown man but unlike our Lyme infested ticks they aren't looking for trouble so bites are low.

Here is one I ran into.

[video=youtube;kmehI-HT7dg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmehI-HT7dg[/video]

 

[JV3]

wear your snow gaiters to lessen the chance of penetration? it might feel too hot though since it's not winter.

 

[Marty Young]

They're beautiful animals. There was a similar colored one crossing the road just below my house 4-5 years ago.
Before I could get to it and catch it some dumbass in a truck ran it over.

 

[Chris Larrikin]

We have more than our fair share of snakes here and almost all of them will kill you. I havent updated my first aid training for a couple years but I think the procedure for snakebites will be about the same.

Having said that this post comes with a disclaimer that you need to do your own research, get trained and dont just trust what some guy said on the internet

If rattlesnake venom is like the venom of Aussie snakes, it travels in the lymph system not the blood. Cutting and sucking the wound will not help.

You want to have a couple good quality compression bandages with you. Theyre part of your first aid kit already right?

If someone is bitten the idea is to slow the spread of the venom through the lymph system. The way to do that is compression and restrict movement. If someone is bitten on a limb, start bandaging firmly from the top of the limb to the foot/fingers, with the bandage overlapping about half its width. Bandage straight over the bite. When you get to the end bandage back up the limb in the same way. The bandage has to be firm but not stop circulation. Then get a splint (straight stick) and use your bandage or cloth to splint the limb and stop movement.

Restricting movement of the casualty is really important, as is keeping them calm.
I was trained not to wash the bite area as the hospital staff may need to sample the venom to find the right antitoxin.

If you can its a good idea to do a first aid course and practise it - emergency services are rarely the first on scene.

 

[Chris Larrikin]

Harriman State Park and the AT within NY/CT to the Hemlocks lean-to in MA has a higher population of Timbers than most people might expect. They avoid conflict but the population has a very nasty hemotoxic venom. 25% of the time they give a dry bite but if hit get medical help ASAP. They are fully capable of killing a full grown man but unlike our Lyme infested ticks they aren't looking for trouble so bites are low.

Hematoxic venom...I wonder if that implies the venom travels thru or interacts with blood differently than our local snakes...if so my last post may not be completely appliccable (altho I think it would still help). Definitely get first aid trained for the local nasties
In the meantime Im curious about US procedures if there is someone in the know around...

 

[Marty Young]

Chris,

The venom in rattlesnakes and copperheads is hemotoxic and travels via the bloodstream. Envenomation is followed by intense pain and tissue destruction. The compression bandage works the same for them.

The Mojave rattlesnake of the Western U.S. has a venom that also has neurotoxic qualities and causes a lot more deaths.
A lot of fatalities credited to the Western Diamondback are actually from Mojave bites.

 

[Allen R.]

Stay calm and get to a hospital.

^This plus if you can get a picture of the snake it would be great, as the hospital needs to know what actually bit you so you get the right anti venom. I've seen a small boy get bit by a copper head, and the dad actually killed the snake and took it to the hospital with his son, so that they could be 100% certain the snake was a copperhead.

 

[Brimstone]

^This plus if you can get a picture of the snake it would be great, as the hospital needs to know what actually bit you so you get the right anti venom. I've seen a small boy get bit by a copper head, and the dad actually killed the snake and took it to the hospital with his son, so that they could be 100% certain the snake was a copperhead.

Isn't the anti-venom the same for all North American snakes except the Coral Snake? Not sure, just asking.

 

[Allen R.]

Isn't the anti-venom the same for all North American snakes except the Coral Snake? Not sure, just asking.

No idea I've just always been told that you want either a picture, or some other way to positively identify the exact snake that bit you, things may of changed now, but we were always told get the best description of the snake as possible for the hospital. hold on I'll google..

 

[Allen R.]

Isn't the anti-venom the same for all North American snakes except the Coral Snake? Not sure, just asking.

your right, I didn't know that ,and wondering why these "snake experts" always told us you had to know the exact snake that bit you to make sure you got the right anti venom maybe it was in case you were bit by a non venomous snake and you thought it was venomous? I dunno It's been awhile ago and I'm getting old..Wait it says its all the same for all North American pit vipers , so the copperhead isn't a pit viper?? It states "anti venom is the same for the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake, the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake, the Mojave Rattlesnake, and the Cottonmouth", but not the copper head...

 

[cchu518]

Hey beanbag, I've been meaning to get in touch with you. I'm an experienced snake keeper. There's little triage that you can do when getting bitten by a rattlesnake, they are generally docile and will avoid interaction.


If you are bitten do not apply any dressing to the localized area, remove all jewelry, safely get yourself to a hospital, in North America they will put 10-20 vials of crofab in you. Crofab is a combo antivenin. Your limb will swell, being hemotoxic there is a chance that at the hospital surgeons will open up your skin in the localized area so that your arm doesn't explode if you get the crofab in you too late. Cost of treatment is 20,000-100,000 so be safe while photographing these beautiful creatures. I've been hiking the Pine Barrens just for the chance to photograph one you are very lucky!

 

[Lycosa]

WW- Thanks for the vdo.
We have TR's come down from the Ridge behind our house and hunt rodents around our house. These are fantastic snakes.
rolf

 

[Woods Walker]

Hematoxic venom...I wonder if that implies the venom travels thru or interacts with blood differently than our local snakes...if so my last post may not be completely appliccable (altho I think it would still help). Definitely get first aid trained for the local nasties
In the meantime Im curious about US procedures if there is someone in the know around...

Full discloser. I am no expert on anything so take this with a gain of salt.

I believe it attacks the vascular systems and blood. Other types of venom are neurotoxic aka Cobra etc. Also there are some differences within populations. For example the Canebrake is a southern population of timber rattlers which has a mix of both toxins. There is also a population that has a milder venom. The Northern population will do some serious tissue damage and like all pit vipers their delivery system is advanced.

It isn't always about how toxic a snake's venom that determines which one is the most dangerous to humans. It is about attitude, proximity to populated areas, venom delivery system and the venom. I think more people in a percentage terms are bitten and killed within the USA than Australia but could be wrong. This despite Australia having some really really toxic snake venoms.

Maybe this discrepancy might have something to due with New World pit viper behavior or maybe human behavior differences within the context of snake encounters. In any case most people are hit when attempting to handle or harm them. Which is rather ironic because some people kill them as a preventive cure to being bitten. If they just walked away nothing would have happened. I guess that applies to many of life's problems.

Here are a few rattlesnake myths or facts. Keep in mind my only interactions have been with Eastern Diamond Backs and Timbers.

1. They ALWAYS rattle a warning.

Sometimes they do like this one however other times not.



Their primary defense beyond the venom is a surprisingly good camo.



2. They are nasty and will strike first, ask questions later.

Even the nastiest most pissed off rattlesnake I have seen really was trying its best to get away. They never seem to be in a hurry to go anyplace but the direction was always away from me. This isn't to say they won't defend themselves by striking first.

3. Timbers are docile. Yes until they're not. Never never never think a wild critter's behavior can be predicted with total confidence. I have accidentally walked right over a Timber during a night hike. If not for the person behind me I wouldn't have even known it. Betting lots of people had close aka within easy strike range encounters and didn't know but I wouldn't put anything to the test.

4. Eastern Diamond Backs have the most toxic venom of any North American snake. No and within populations there is a range however the pure volume of venom makes up for that IMHO.

5. Baby rattlesnakes are more dangerous than adults. Maybe or maybe not. Is there a higher percentage of hot hits compared to adults? Don't know but then again I am not going to put this to the test.

 

[cchu518]

We were at the Sonoran desert museum at a presentation. Interesting fun fact, statistically males between the age of 18-30, the majority of bites from venomous snakes are on the arms or hands vs a lower extremity in women of the same category. The presenter said this was the case because males try to interact with venomous snakes.

Venom is used to catch prey in venomous snakes. Older snakes learn to send measured doses of venom in their bites to conserve venom and in some cases dry bite. Baby venomous snakes do not learn this tactic and basically shoot their whole load.

 

[22-rimfire]

I believe you're supposed to put a compression bandage on the bite and apply ice to restrict movement of the venom. Head for the hospital. It is probably not necessary to kill the snake to identify it, but if in doubt pictures or the actual snake for ID. I suspect in a lot of cases, the snake that bit often is not venomous and urban folks simply don't know their snakes.

Seeing a Timber Rattler in the woods is a real treat, especially if you see them first.

 

[beanbag]

Overnight in rattler country. No live ones for us, but other hikers reported rattler sightings.