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Has anyone used their system, and how did it compare to other methods? Opinions of the book would also be appreciated. Thanks.
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RazorEdgeSystems "system" opinions?
- Thread starter manowar669
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
The book is great. The system is great.
The Razor Edge system is fantastic. I use just the clamps -- I don't use their stones, I like DMT diamond hones and Spyderco's big 8"x2" ceramic hones. The one complaint might be that you can't pick your own angle -- the "angle adjustment" is extremely limited. But on the positive side, the final edge will be extremely precise. In a couple of years, the clamps will start to wear and you'll have to replace them.
Although I don't agree with everything in the book, I nevertheless heartily recommend that you read it. If you want to see where my opinions differ, check out the Sharpening FAQ.
Joe
The Razor Edge system is fantastic. I use just the clamps -- I don't use their stones, I like DMT diamond hones and Spyderco's big 8"x2" ceramic hones. The one complaint might be that you can't pick your own angle -- the "angle adjustment" is extremely limited. But on the positive side, the final edge will be extremely precise. In a couple of years, the clamps will start to wear and you'll have to replace them.
Although I don't agree with everything in the book, I nevertheless heartily recommend that you read it. If you want to see where my opinions differ, check out the Sharpening FAQ.
Joe
Several years ago I did an internet search on "sharpening". Found an article Joe wrote about sharpening, where he recommends The RazorEdge Book of Sharpening. I followed the information in Joe's article. Bought and read the book. Bought the guides. I like them and feel they work. Have not gotten a bad edge. They stand behind their products, too. Had one screw strip. They promptly sent me a replacement. Definitely good reading and products.
Now, I tend to use them more when reprofiling a blade. Afterwards, finish up on my Sharpmaker. If you don't let your blades get dull the Sharpmaker is great for just touching up.
I still have Joe's article on hardcopy. Printed and saved it. Great information to refer back to. That was before I found the forums. Guess where it is? Inside my Razor Edge book of Sharpening. Where else?
Now, I tend to use them more when reprofiling a blade. Afterwards, finish up on my Sharpmaker. If you don't let your blades get dull the Sharpmaker is great for just touching up.
I still have Joe's article on hardcopy. Printed and saved it. Great information to refer back to. That was before I found the forums. Guess where it is? Inside my Razor Edge book of Sharpening. Where else?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 163
Manowar-
I was really psyched when I got my Razoredge system. I also agree that the book was very useful, if not 100 percent perfect. I also eventually changed to DMT diamond hones, for a while.
On the one hand, the razoredge system can produce a WICKED, WICKED sharp edge. The system is pretty easy to understand and you can get good results with practice.
But I also found that the extreme angle you can get with this system has two problems. The first was that it destroyed the finishes on my knives- the bevel was so shallow that my knives pretty lines were spoiled... I also found that these wicked sharp edges were really easy to dull and/or break.
Some other drawbacks I found was how TIME CONSUMING the system was, and how much stone "grit" came off of the stones... I had to do my grinding outside cuz the grit would get everywhere and muck up my tables.
If what you want is an astoundingly sharp, shallow edge, this system will do it. And if you want a knife for a TOOL that CUTS, its fine. But if some part of you admires the beauty of a knife, think twice about putting it to these stones.
Questions?
I was really psyched when I got my Razoredge system. I also agree that the book was very useful, if not 100 percent perfect. I also eventually changed to DMT diamond hones, for a while.
On the one hand, the razoredge system can produce a WICKED, WICKED sharp edge. The system is pretty easy to understand and you can get good results with practice.
But I also found that the extreme angle you can get with this system has two problems. The first was that it destroyed the finishes on my knives- the bevel was so shallow that my knives pretty lines were spoiled... I also found that these wicked sharp edges were really easy to dull and/or break.
Some other drawbacks I found was how TIME CONSUMING the system was, and how much stone "grit" came off of the stones... I had to do my grinding outside cuz the grit would get everywhere and muck up my tables.
If what you want is an astoundingly sharp, shallow edge, this system will do it. And if you want a knife for a TOOL that CUTS, its fine. But if some part of you admires the beauty of a knife, think twice about putting it to these stones.
Questions?
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- Oct 5, 1998
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- 17,562
UltraSteele :
Don't the clamps produce a ~22 degree edge?
-Cliff
Don't the clamps produce a ~22 degree edge?
-Cliff
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 163
Actually, I'm not sure... I don't have a protractor to check. If I find one I'll post here again.
The instructions tell you to clamp the guide as high on the back of the blade as possible, to get the shalowest angle. As you move the guide toward the edge, the angle gets wider. Being a novice, I clamped that baby right at the very back edge of my knife, and this produces a VERY deep primary bevel. The angle with the guide is defined by the distance of the edge from the guide, so with a wider blade (measured sharp edge to blade spine, say halfway along the blade) the angle produced by the guide is shallower... See my crude illustration:
Guide Height V
|
See here is the angle | Spine
Edge _______________________|
But on a WIDER blade:
Guide Height V
|
|Spine
Edge___________________________|
Draw a line from the "edge" to the top of the guide height, and you can see the angle is shallower on a wider blade... I wish I was more tech savvy... Like with pictures and stuff.
Obviously, I know now that I can move the guide up, and I suppose with a protractor I'd be able to check things before I started grinding... I just took thier instructions at face value.
With a word to the wise, if you're cautious, it can be a fine system. I just wound up finding ones that were more to my tastes and needs.
Cliff or anyone else- if'n you want more info, post here I'm happy to share what I know.
Comments? Questions? Bueller?
The instructions tell you to clamp the guide as high on the back of the blade as possible, to get the shalowest angle. As you move the guide toward the edge, the angle gets wider. Being a novice, I clamped that baby right at the very back edge of my knife, and this produces a VERY deep primary bevel. The angle with the guide is defined by the distance of the edge from the guide, so with a wider blade (measured sharp edge to blade spine, say halfway along the blade) the angle produced by the guide is shallower... See my crude illustration:
Guide Height V
|
See here is the angle | Spine
Edge _______________________|
But on a WIDER blade:
Guide Height V
|
|Spine
Edge___________________________|
Draw a line from the "edge" to the top of the guide height, and you can see the angle is shallower on a wider blade... I wish I was more tech savvy... Like with pictures and stuff.
Obviously, I know now that I can move the guide up, and I suppose with a protractor I'd be able to check things before I started grinding... I just took thier instructions at face value.
With a word to the wise, if you're cautious, it can be a fine system. I just wound up finding ones that were more to my tastes and needs.
Cliff or anyone else- if'n you want more info, post here I'm happy to share what I know.
Comments? Questions? Bueller?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 163
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- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 163
I'll see what I can come up with... The board deletes the spaces I put in to show all this... Sorry all to do such a doofus thing. I'm still new to posting after all...
I've had my RazorEdge system for several years. Before I bought the system, I bought and read the book. After reading the book I was able to take any decent quality knife I owned and put a shaving sharp edge on it. After I got the system I was able to upgrade the edge to hair popping.
The technique employed in the book and with the system does scuff or scar the blade up. That issue is addressed in the book. I can't quote it, but the idea is: "Do you want a sharp knife that cuts or a pretty knife that isn't sharp?" I have my put away and carry occasionally knives and my everyday working knives. I want my working knives to be sharp and to cut. If you practice with the system, you can adjust the amount of blade scuffing you get, and produce a thicker overally edge.
The one down side I have found to RazorEdge sharpened knives is that they are so sharp that if you cut yourself, you don't feel it!
The technique employed in the book and with the system does scuff or scar the blade up. That issue is addressed in the book. I can't quote it, but the idea is: "Do you want a sharp knife that cuts or a pretty knife that isn't sharp?" I have my put away and carry occasionally knives and my everyday working knives. I want my working knives to be sharp and to cut. If you practice with the system, you can adjust the amount of blade scuffing you get, and produce a thicker overally edge.
The one down side I have found to RazorEdge sharpened knives is that they are so sharp that if you cut yourself, you don't feel it!
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2002
- Messages
- 1,821
Joe T.
I was planning on using DMT diamonds and extra fine ceramics, exactly as you described.
All.
Thanks so much for your opinions. One question, do you have to re-position the clamp to do the tip, or on blades with a lot of belly?
I was planning on using DMT diamonds and extra fine ceramics, exactly as you described.
All.
Thanks so much for your opinions. One question, do you have to re-position the clamp to do the tip, or on blades with a lot of belly?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 163
The razor edge system has 2 steps.
You fasten the guide once on your blade and grind on (a) coarse stone the whole length- the idea is that you are maintaining a consitent angle. This can be problematic for awkwardly shaped blades. The guides come in two sizes- one for 4" and under and one for over 4".
Once you do the primary bevel, you slide the guide CLOSER to the edge and slightly toward the tip of the knife. This has the effect of DECREASING the angle all along the blade, giving you your secondary bevel that will be the actual cutting edge. You grind this time on the fine stone.
Very simple and clean.
Info on bevels, sharpening tips and edge theory/geometry is available... well, everywhere. I've read Joe Talmadge's stuff on it on all kinds of web sites... just look around.
You fasten the guide once on your blade and grind on (a) coarse stone the whole length- the idea is that you are maintaining a consitent angle. This can be problematic for awkwardly shaped blades. The guides come in two sizes- one for 4" and under and one for over 4".
Once you do the primary bevel, you slide the guide CLOSER to the edge and slightly toward the tip of the knife. This has the effect of DECREASING the angle all along the blade, giving you your secondary bevel that will be the actual cutting edge. You grind this time on the fine stone.
Very simple and clean.
Info on bevels, sharpening tips and edge theory/geometry is available... well, everywhere. I've read Joe Talmadge's stuff on it on all kinds of web sites... just look around.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
Nope! By positioning the clamp correctly (instructions included with the guide), you maintain the same angle through the whole edge, from tip to belly to heel.
As UltraSteele said, the only time you re-position the clamp is to double-grind the edge.
Joe