RC got my back

Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
707
Well it's official. Got screwed by Ontario. I have been waiting for over 4 months for 2 new TAK knives that I purchased as gifts before Christmas. These knives should never have been sent out. The serrations on one knife were ground at such an angle that the first serration was about a 1/4" higher on the blade than the last one. In addition to this, the flat grind was no where near even. On the plain edge knife, the grind was so far off that the grind only went about half way up one side of the knife. The other side was way over ground. The tip was way off and appeared to be bent because of the asymmetrical grind. IT was a very disappointing day. I contacted Mike about the issue and he said he would get a couple of new TAK knives out to me when they where out of production. FAST FORWARD-ONTARIO STARTS BS. After being cut off by Ontario, Mike sent me the contact info, and made one more attempt to contact on my behalf. No response. I contacted, no response. I called and asked to speak with someone directly. They listened to my story then told me the person I needed to speak with was unavailable, and I needed to leave a message. I left a message over a week ago and have not been contacted. I only have one queston. Why would Ontario screw a good paying customer? Where has all their integrity gone? Feeling beyond frustrated and needing to vent a bit, I e-mailed Mike and told him of this, and how I was glad he and Jeff are now working with Rowan.
Going way above and beyond, Mike has offered to replace the Ontario crap with new RC blades. Everyone here knows that Mike and Jeff are upstanding, honest gentlemen. I know this doesn't surprise any of you here. Am I a bit surprised? Yes, and NO. Yes, because this type of integrity is not seen in most industries today. It's all about profit, right. And No, because of the people Mike and Jeff are. They actually care about their customers. They have integrity, and will enjoy the support from customers that it creates. With full knowledge that Rat Cutlery is going above and beyond what is required, I can only say thank you. You guys have a customer for life, and I will own every product RC puts out.
I wanted to let everyone know about my experience. Ontario is no longer displaying American integrity, and has lost me as a customer for good. Once again- Thank you Mike and Jeff.

Chris-Rat Cutlery customer for life!!!!!!!!
 
Cody1,

We will have samples of the new RAT Cutlery TAK knives at the Blade Show (end of May). We will not have production runs ready to ship at that point but will have enough to make sure you get good TAK replacements made by Rowen Manufacturing. You will have to use the current TAK sheaths you have since I doubt we will have sheathing worked out by that time. So, give us until then and we will ONCE AGAIN fix Ontario's screw-ups and lack of customer service. Other than that, I don't know what to say about the lack of interest on fixing a customer's problems.

But, don't forget: Ontario's been around a long time and does millions a year in defense business. :rolleyes:
 
I am not going to say a lot other than this is not an isolated incident. There are several warranty/customer service issues (Ontario's) that have 'fallen between the cracks' so to speak. I really hope someone at Ontario is reading this (Sue, Bob, Sharon, Diane, John, Nick?) and will address the problem that seems to be plaguing the customer service in the last few months. Even Walmart gives you an exchange or your money back. Mike
 
The more I read over this thread, the more it pisses me off. Mike handled most of the customer service issues so he was on the front lines of dealing with all of this. It's just a damn shame in my opinion.

RAT Cutlery will always be responsive to their customers. Period. If we ever get to the point that we are so busy dealing with our big customers that we don't have time to deal with the single customer's warranty issues, then we'll quit the business altogether. When I do business with anyone, be it Wal-Mart, a local gas station or a restaurant, I DEMAND that I be treated like a customer and DEMAND good customer service. When I don't get it, I go to the manager of the store and complain. If that does no good, I quit doing business with the company altogether.

RAT Cutlery does a lot of business. Most of it is business that is never heard about on the forums. Our law enforcement sales are much larger than our civilian sales. DEA Agents, Deputy US Marshals, SWAT teams and local PDs have kept us busy for some time. I said all that to say this: even though we have a lot going on other than civilian sales, we always take the time and effort to reply to every customer. The bottom line is that customer's problems are unique and very important to him. It may be something trivial, but it still a RAT Cutlery customer and at that time that problem is important to that customer. The customer deserves to be treated as a customer and with respect, no matter how small of a customer he may be. Period. It doesn't even matter if he is a potential customer that's never bought a product, he still deserves the same treatment and respect as anyone else.
 
I ain't finished yet...

The bad part about all of this is there are still a LOT of people in the knife industry that believe Mike and I are still associated with Ontario Knife Company, since they don't read these forums. Ontario is still making RAT knives and putting our name and logo on them after they have been told to stop. The bad quality and customer service reflects on the RAT name. Ontario obviously doesn't give a shit about what's right.
 
It is a shame that Rat Cutlery is cleaning up after Ontario (still) but that is the Type of Guys Jeff/Mike are, Outstanding folks .I am a Rat Cutlery lifetime customer ! Does not matter to the RC guys if you own one blade from them or have a large contract or even a new potenial customer ,RC will take the time to talk to you as a person and address your needs..that is customer service !!!
 
And it's exactly customer service like the RAT guys are putting out that will make them even beyond what a fine product will do.
 
I only hope that RatCutlery is documenting any and all service claims including adminstrative and overhead time that they have contributed following their issuing of cease and desist order with Ontario. I think Ontario should be liable for these expenditures.

Mike and Jeff are put in a vulnerable position here because they are trying to preserve the integrity of their name which is being wrongfully stamped on inferior product and sold to the mass market. What is to stop Ontario from continuing to put out bad product and intentionally damaging the RAT-brand in the process?
 
I would think a court order is needed but let's say RC got the court order to stop Ontario from putting the RAT name on the blades ,then what...what about all the Ontario RAT's the vendors are holding? what about all that are in the open market ? sounds like a mess that will never stop.
 
As to dealers--RAT takes good care of us too. They have been really responsive to all of my inquiries and needs.
 
I ain't finished yet...

The bad part about all of this is there are still a LOT of people in the knife industry that believe Mike and I are still associated with Ontario Knife Company, since they don't read these forums. Ontario is still making RAT knives and putting our name and logo on them after they have been told to stop. The bad quality and customer service reflects on the RAT name. Ontario obviously doesn't give a shit about what's right.


The word is getting out brotha! I was telling a guy on AR15.com about your gear being good stuff, and another guy piped right in and brought up the Ontario boycott.:thumbup: I was about to go back and add that, but he beat me to it! I posted on CK&G, and I think that generated a few nastygrams to them.:cool:


Jeff and Mike are 2 of the most stand-up guys we have in this biz, its a crying shame Ontario has decided to act in this manner. Im thinking they wont be around for a whole lot longer if they continue on this course.

Keep yer chins up boys, we are all pulling for the good guys on this one for sure!!:thumbup::cool:;)
 
This kind of customer service is FANTASTIC! I have been following many of the threads regarding the RAT vs Ontario drama, and this cinches it. I was NOT going to purchase an Ontario knife, but I WILL be buying from the RAT guys.

Trouble is...RC4 or RC3? Any suggestions? I have plenty of 4 inch blades already so I don't NEED another one...(did I just say that?....someone slap me!)
 
Cody1,


But, don't forget: Ontario's been around a long time and does millions a year in defense business. :rolleyes:

yeah, this comment made in another thread was STUPID. I bit my tongue. Doing gajillions of bucks with the army means SHIT when it comes to the ONE customr that gets treated like crap.

Brett
 
Trouble is...RC4 or RC3? Any suggestions? I have plenty of 4 inch blades already so I don't NEED another one...(did I just say that?....someone slap me!)


I'm in the same boat, i have a RAT-3 and was debating on upgrading to a RC-4 or a RC-3... but might just hold out for a RC-5 SERE w/ Necker :D
 
yeah, this comment made in another thread was STUPID. I bit my tongue. Doing gajillions of bucks with the army means SHIT when it comes to the ONE customr that gets treated like crap.

Brett

Another point to all of this is even though Ontario Knife Company has been around since Noah's ark, the present owners haven't owned it all those years. So, what that statement had to do with anything I don't know.
 
OK, maybe I'm just talking to a small group, but I've asked several family members and friends, that are spread out all through different jobs in the military, and none of them were issued an Ontario knife, so I wonder just how many are actually being issued these days???
 
The only issued ones I know of are the new bayonet for the M16 that's a cross between a Ka-Bar fighting knife and a bayonet. As far as I know, the ONLY ones issued that are MARINES in infantry units. Since the Corps is, well, a corps-sized unit, and less than 10% are infantry, that's what? maybe 20-30,000 actually issued?

Anyone else using them is buying them themselves.
Hardly "millions of knives"

As for field knives, I think you'll see a lot more Ranger, RAT, Busse (the whole family), and Randall (since they will make knives for guys on active duty right away, no waiting list), than you'll see of the Ontarios (even the Ontario RATs).
 
What Ontario sells to the government is public information. With a little bit of searching via the internet you can pull most of their current contracts up. I know they have a contract on the ASEK pilot's survival knife, strap cutter, M9 bayonet, Marine Corp bayonet, and a few other smaller projects. As for other knives, I know there were a lot of Ontario RATs serving with our military.
 
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