RC hardness for survival knife?

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blade_lover228

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Jul 11, 2008
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i was just wondering what you all think is the best RC hardness and steel for a survival knife? should it be softer stainless steel like around RC 54 or uber hard carbon steel around RC 60? please share your opinions and arguments for your choice.

JLee
 
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The only valid answer is that it depends on the steel. Some steels take high hardnesses just fine without becoming too brittle. Some steels have to stay low to be tough, as a survival knife preferably should be. On the other hand, too soft means abysmally poor edge-holding. For most of my knives, the hardness is between 58 and 62 RC, and that works well for a good mix of toughness and edge-holding with steels ranging from tried and true like 1095 and 5160 to expensive and high tech like VG-10 and INFI.
 
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I would argue that a knife that's differentially tempered (hard edge, soft back) is best for nearly all uses, not just "survival".
 
A2 in the 56Rc to 58Rc range is just about perfect.

Tough as nails but still offering good edge retention
 
Or O-1 tool steel at about 58 rc works quite well in my opinion......or 1095 at 59 rc......and the list goes on.....carbon steel is always best though.
 
Rockwell alone tells you how hard it is, it doesn't tell you the dozens of other, more important factors in a blade that needs to be relied on in an emergency. For MOST modern high grade steels(including carbon, tools steels, stainless), the ideal number is somewhere between 58 and 62. For simple carbon alloys sometimes they're the toughest in the low 50's, at other times a harder blade is actually tougher as well.
 
A2 peaks at performance in the 59/61 range. D2, 60/61 and O1 58/61. Most cutlery steels do well from 57 to 61. More then hardness, geometry speaks the loudest when it comes to cutting performance.
Scott
 
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I agree with Scott.

All though geometry is not part of the original question, it is a huge part of the equation.

A2 @ 58Rc with a thick full convex grind will be a great slicer as well as a hard working chopper, the same steel with a thin high hollow grind will be a great cutting tool but won’t take the abuse as well.
 
I think a survival knife should be easy to sharpen. A softer steel is often tougher as well. While most of the high-end survival knives are 58 to 60, I think something a little softer is better for a survival knife. But everybody else seems to think differently, judging by the survival knives being made today. Ever try to sharpen a dull ATS-34 Buck Strider Solution by hand? The old Air Force pilots knives were deliberately hardened to about 54 Rc.
 
Horn Dog said:
Ever try to sharpen a dull ATS-34 Buck Strider Solution by hand? The old Air Force pilots knives were deliberately hardened to about 54 Rc.
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Yes but we have much better sharpening "technology" available today :thumbup:

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What sort of survival knife? A big chopper or a little slicer? If you have a 50 RC slicer, I think that's foolish. If you temper your kukri to 61, you are braver than I am.

Hardness is not a function of need - it's a function of application. There isn't a good "survival hardness." There are only appropriate hardnesses for different uses.
 
blade_lover228 said:
i was just wondering what you all think is the best RC hardness and steel for a survival knife? should it be softer stainless steel like around RC 54 or uber hard carbon steel around RC 60? please share your opinions and arguments for your choice.

JLee
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Depends, given those criteria I'd pick the 60rc carbon blade, while there are a few stainless steels that do okay at 54 rc none of them are particularly great. Do you have any particular knives in mind? It would be alot easier to give advice if we knew what you were trying to pick at here. I'd just as soon pick a 60rc stainless blade over most 54 rc carbon steel ones, but like others have said it very much depends on the specifics of the application, environment, knife design, etc. 40 years ago before the advent of modern high carbon stainless steels and knifemakers that knew what to do with them this would be more cut and dry.
 
I have a Bushcraft on order that should be here tomorrow. It is made of 4140 saw blade steel which can only get to Rc55. Field tests proved it passed many tasks with flying colors. It may need to be stropped a bit more than a harder steel but it preformed excellent.
 

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The type of edge is SO important here.

I do these "scandi style" convex edges in 15N20 (a type of bandsaw steel, generally very tough for a given hardness, but not going to get as hard as 1095 at the extreme end)- as good as I can tell with my assorted files and continuous testing I get 57-59 out of my blades after temper. The 57 might be a bit soft for some grinds, but in the convex it just stays sharp forever. I work for the 59 end of the scale very hard on my scandi grind blades since the edge will wear faster. And down around 55 or a bit lower the edge formation seems (to my admittedly limited experience) to suffer on the 11 degree scandi grinds I commonly do.

I think going above 61 would put me at too much risk of chipping instead of denting in an edge damage situation, but again, that's imprecise (and the only thing I have managed to chip enough and retemper to know for sure is a recycled truck spring forged blade anyhow)
 
Say Heah Guys and Gals, A few days ago from this post, I got my Battle Horse Attitude, Simply TiT's, Beautiful. But I had it done "My Way", and Battle Horse took care of the Spot On., They did a Excellent job, I had the Attitude Slightly Curved and the Drop Point Loered,, This aided in the geometry and how I was going to use it and I defenetly wouldn't mind ending up with it as a Survival Knife. I also had a High Scandi Grind on it. and a White Handle with Blue Liners to team up with my Smaller Himalayan Imports M-43 Khukuri. Anyhow Peters Tempered my Attitude and it's perfect for what I use it for. The RC is 58, and in O1, I got it for the ease of sharpening especially in a Survival Situational.

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yoda4561 said:
Depends, given those criteria I'd pick the 60rc carbon blade, while there are a few stainless steels that do okay at 54 rc none of them are particularly great. Do you have any particular knives in mind? It would be alot easier to give advice if we knew what you were trying to pick at here. I'd just as soon pick a 60rc stainless blade over most 54 rc carbon steel ones, but like others have said it very much depends on the specifics of the application, environment, knife design, etc. 40 years ago before the advent of modern high carbon stainless steels and knifemakers that knew what to do with them this would be more cut and dry.
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Say Heah, Right, I have a Blind Horse Bushcrafter, I had the Tan Micarta Handle Flattened and Polished and notice it doesn't slip as much when wet, I guess it's because it's a Canvas Characteristics. It's also a Scandi Grind with a Sheath like in this picture but a little darker. I believe it's hardened between 58-60 and what I do with it, I'm more than satisfied, I Baton with it but it's way to chop with it because it's too short of a blade. But it's still a Tank of a knife. I do Baton Chop with it though and it handles that great and I can also work wood with it just fine. Its also in the O1, and that's why I got my Battle Horse Attitude in O1 too. Sure A2 might be better. But ease of sharpening especially in a Survival situation was my concern too, So why argue success.
mmmotorcycle said:
Or O-1 tool steel at about 58 rc works quite well in my opinion......or 1095 at 59 rc......and the list goes on.....carbon steel is always best though.
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