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Really hard 1084
- Thread starter samuraistuart
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- Dec 21, 2006
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Concerning the temperature of the canola.......I have tried it both ways......room temp and 130 degrees. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference. The blades get extremely hard, but there is that small area near the ricasso where mass is greatest that I need to pay better attention to. However, that is why I brought up the canola as possibly being the variable to address in this situation. Also, to address what Stacy brought up.....I'm using 2 gallons of canola to quench. It's brand new oil. As Willie71 brought up, I am also curious as to Stacy's, and anyone else's, opinion on brine/water quenching this 1084, interrupted or not.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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Brine should be 80-100F. Don't get it too warm, or the quench speed falls off. Too cool and it can shock to the steel.
When you read about someone recommending an ice water bath for the quench....delete that page from your computer.
Most all commercial quench oils can be used between 80F and 130F. The faster oils do better at 80-100F....which is the normal shop temp for many of us. Unless it is cold weather, I don't warm my oil.
Lets talk a little about quenchants:
The base rate for quenching is water. It has a quench rate of 1.00
Brine is nearly twice as fast with a quench rate of 1.96
Sodium hydroxide is barely faster than brine, at 2.06 ( and VERY dangerous to use)
Commercial oils start at around .80 and drop down to lard at .20
Forced air is .030, and still air is .015
Aluminum quench plates are about .10
Warming an oil quenchant lowers its viscosity, making it able to extract heat faster.
Warming water/brine lowers the shock when the hot steel enters the bath by shortening the time before the vapor jacket insulates the steel.
The commercial quenchants are an oil base ( mineral and others) with chemical additives to speed up the vapor jacket collapse, increase heat extraction, control cooling rate, and provide long term stability. The engineers have tweaked the formulae for decades to get the very best from todays steels. The steel engineers have kept pace, too, improving the refining and alloying of today's steels. This is why the "old recipes" for quenchants your Granddaddy used are often not a good choice. The steels today are far better than what Grandpa used, and the commercial quenchants are superb.
With the long life of a bucket of commercial quenchant, the cost becomes very affordable.
When you read about someone recommending an ice water bath for the quench....delete that page from your computer.
Most all commercial quench oils can be used between 80F and 130F. The faster oils do better at 80-100F....which is the normal shop temp for many of us. Unless it is cold weather, I don't warm my oil.
Lets talk a little about quenchants:
The base rate for quenching is water. It has a quench rate of 1.00
Brine is nearly twice as fast with a quench rate of 1.96
Sodium hydroxide is barely faster than brine, at 2.06 ( and VERY dangerous to use)
Commercial oils start at around .80 and drop down to lard at .20
Forced air is .030, and still air is .015
Aluminum quench plates are about .10
Warming an oil quenchant lowers its viscosity, making it able to extract heat faster.
Warming water/brine lowers the shock when the hot steel enters the bath by shortening the time before the vapor jacket insulates the steel.
The commercial quenchants are an oil base ( mineral and others) with chemical additives to speed up the vapor jacket collapse, increase heat extraction, control cooling rate, and provide long term stability. The engineers have tweaked the formulae for decades to get the very best from todays steels. The steel engineers have kept pace, too, improving the refining and alloying of today's steels. This is why the "old recipes" for quenchants your Granddaddy used are often not a good choice. The steels today are far better than what Grandpa used, and the commercial quenchants are superb.
With the long life of a bucket of commercial quenchant, the cost becomes very affordable.
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