Peter Hartwig
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2008
- Messages
- 5,657
In case you have not noticed, we are not very impartial. Most here have made the decision they are worth it, spoken with our $'s and bought the knife or many CRK's
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Really worth the price?
- Thread starter yepimonfire
- Start date
lazy otter
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2013
- Messages
- 1,901
If you buy one you will see! Also check out the vids on YouTube of Chris Reeves giving a shop tour and explaining the steps involved that goes into a sebenza! Also the customer service and the fact that you can take it apart for maitnence and not void a warranty! They also give you the allan wrench cleaning cloth and lube for maitnence. Also you can get a good deal on the exchange and not spend $400 and still have all I listed above! So it is just a solid buy you won't regret!
This is a tough one, it's kind of like asking on an Iphone fan page if the Iphone is worth it, "worth" is very subjective. 
I own a Umnumzaan and a 25, and some others over the years, I used to EDC the Zaan a lot. To me I still see fit/finish/tolerances that CRK does better than just about anyone else. You really need to handle one to feel the solid feeling/sounding locking action and also the hydraulic smooth resistance opening.
That being said, I believe the fit/finish gap has closed over the last 20 years. There are a lot of very good production knives out there now with great fit/finish at half the price. Frankly though that has nothing to do with the performance of the knife actually cutting things. It's kind of like having perfectly even door/hood/trunk gaps, it signifies high attention to detail and quality, and usually higher price, but has NOTHING to do with the function of the car.
If there's one place I think CRK opens themselves up for criticism it's the blade steel. S35vn is a great all-around steel a great mix of edge holding, corrosion resistance, and toughness (it also doesn't hurt that it's very "cost effective" for makers because it's so easy to grind/heat treat). For me there are just too many production knives these days that offer blade steels that are vastly superior in edge holding to S35vn, especially at RC 58-59. We don't see many posts about S90v, S110v, M4, CTS-20cp, CST-204p M390, etc. from any company under normal folder use with edge chipping problems. So toughness of those steels seems to be adequate for most. I also don't find those steels much harder to touch up/maintain than S30v/S35vn, a few extra swipes on the sharpmaker maybe and they are back in business. Now a full re-profile sure that can be way more work.
In the end it depends on where you sit on the form/function debate. For me I lean heavily toward function and now that I've picked up a few knives with much better edge retention I find myself carrying my CRKs less and less. It's just disheartening how quickly they dull in comparison. However, they still puts a smile on my face every time I open one up like few of my knives can.
I own a Umnumzaan and a 25, and some others over the years, I used to EDC the Zaan a lot. To me I still see fit/finish/tolerances that CRK does better than just about anyone else. You really need to handle one to feel the solid feeling/sounding locking action and also the hydraulic smooth resistance opening.
That being said, I believe the fit/finish gap has closed over the last 20 years. There are a lot of very good production knives out there now with great fit/finish at half the price. Frankly though that has nothing to do with the performance of the knife actually cutting things. It's kind of like having perfectly even door/hood/trunk gaps, it signifies high attention to detail and quality, and usually higher price, but has NOTHING to do with the function of the car.
If there's one place I think CRK opens themselves up for criticism it's the blade steel. S35vn is a great all-around steel a great mix of edge holding, corrosion resistance, and toughness (it also doesn't hurt that it's very "cost effective" for makers because it's so easy to grind/heat treat). For me there are just too many production knives these days that offer blade steels that are vastly superior in edge holding to S35vn, especially at RC 58-59. We don't see many posts about S90v, S110v, M4, CTS-20cp, CST-204p M390, etc. from any company under normal folder use with edge chipping problems. So toughness of those steels seems to be adequate for most. I also don't find those steels much harder to touch up/maintain than S30v/S35vn, a few extra swipes on the sharpmaker maybe and they are back in business. Now a full re-profile sure that can be way more work.
In the end it depends on where you sit on the form/function debate. For me I lean heavily toward function and now that I've picked up a few knives with much better edge retention I find myself carrying my CRKs less and less. It's just disheartening how quickly they dull in comparison. However, they still puts a smile on my face every time I open one up like few of my knives can.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 7,425
I had handled them in a store and it still didn't really click for me. One Christmas a number of years back my sons gave me a small Classic (which floored me) and handling it for a bit totally convinced me. Unfortunately, that turned out to be pretty expensive, because I've now got about a dozen CRK folders. 
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,947
I just wrote a huge post and decide to toss it in favor of a simpler, more to the point one.
A product or service is only worth as much as what the seeker is willing to pay. If you are willing to pay the price for a CRK, there's a greater chance that you will be satisfied with the money spent, than you will regret the money spent. Many knives cut things very well, but there's more to a CRK than just cutting performance. You gotta feel it to believe it.
Regards,
A product or service is only worth as much as what the seeker is willing to pay. If you are willing to pay the price for a CRK, there's a greater chance that you will be satisfied with the money spent, than you will regret the money spent. Many knives cut things very well, but there's more to a CRK than just cutting performance. You gotta feel it to believe it.
Regards,
I own 8 CRK's and I absolutely agree with this. They aren't for everyone and that's perfectly fine. Some people would think spending $50 on a knife is silly let alone over $400. To me, it's the perfect cutting tool and that is why I carry CRK knives. It is an American made perfectly designed folder and I can easily get most of my money back if I ever wanted to sell them off.
Lemme see if I can make a list........
Most of this stuff is for the sebenza 21, but a lot of it overlaps to the other knives as well
1. CRK is VERY innovative in the knife industry:
-First to ever use the RIL (framelock) on a folding knife
-First to widely use Ti handles
-Invented the double dip pocket clip that helps with in-pocket retention
-One of the first companies to start using the technique of stone washing blades
-The only reason s35vn exists today is because of CRK, and to some extent the same is true for s30v
-First to use the ceramic ball detent that makes the knife even smoother because it avoids any sticking problems that traditional steel detent balls have
-Pioneered the minimalist design that is extremely durable, easy to maintain, and can be taken apart and put back together a million times without any issues.
2. Tolerences are tighter than the aerospace industry
-CRK builds their knives with machines that they built specifically for making their knives, and have had to develop over many years
-The knives are built to such tight tolerences that everything is absolutely flawless in how it fits together
-The knives are much more durable and long lasting because of this. They will last a lifetime if you don't abuse them
3. They are perfectly designed folders
-The blade to handle ratios are amazing
-They have all the features you could need, and none that you don't
-Ti is sandblasted for grip
-Detent is great
-Great lock geometry, and a very strong lockup.
-Ergonomics are impressive considering how straight the profile of the handle is
-Thin in pocket, both in width and thickness, making carrying the knives much easier
-Lightweight for their size because of the Ti, the compactness, and the minimalist design that doesn't require heavy steel liners in addition to scales
-They are simplistic in their design, which adds to their durability. Not much to break, and super easy to clean
-The Ti framelocks have been refined over the years to be absolutely the best on the market
-CRK has been constantly fine tuning the few designs they already have rather than making subpar new ones every year, so they are able to really get things as perfect as possible
-The 21 has a true hollow grind that is actually slightly thinner a little ways back from the edge, providing years of sharpening life before the cutting performance is negatively affected by the blade thickening up. The 25 is similar but has a shallower hollow grind to add a bit more strength to the blade.
4. The fit and finish is impeccable
-You won't find a more aesthetically flawless production knife out there
-looks fall under personal opinion, but the fit and finish is unquestionably awesome on CRKs
5. Premium materials
-S35vn at the hardness CRK runs it at is not the ultimate in edge retention, but its perfectly fine for everyday uses and will last a good long while, especially if you strop it regularly
-The steel is easy to sharpen because it's run a little softer
-The steel is tough enough to keep the blade from snapping or chipping at the edge
-Ti is very light and strong
-Hardware is high quality so the screws won't strip out on you
6. The pivot bushing system
-Combined with CRKs legendary fit and finish, this system makes it so that the knife is rock solid with absolutely NO blade play
-Centering is typically perfect
-the action is glassy smooth
-after being broken in, the blade will usually fall freely even though the pivot is tightened all the way down
-The pivot has notches cut out of the inside for grease to go in. This allows for the knife to stay lubed for longer
-the tight tolerences give it a "hydraulic" feel when opening and closing. The action isn't the fastest, but its very satisfying to the discerning knife user
7. Warranty and customer service are excellent
-As long as you don't abuse the knife, CRK will always be willing to fix anything wrong.
-Very good company to deal with that truly cares about its customers
-small shop that has few employees and is closely monitored by Chris Reeve and his wife. They're right on the border of being midtechs
-many of the knives are personally inspected by Chris before they leave the shop
-excellent QC that very few companies compare to
-They offer a free spa treatment for all standard sebenzas that includes sharpening, re-sand blasting the handles, and tuning the knife back to perfection
-they will replace blades for a fraction of the price of the knife, or for free if it turns out that they failed because of a manufacturing defect
-The knives come with a tool to take them apart because CRK trusts its customers and knows that it's almost impossible to mess the knives up
-they also come with a small complimentary tube of CRK flourinated grease, which is arguably the best stuff to use with their knives
8. Exclusivity
-each knife has a birthdate and comes with a signed card
-not too many are made compared to many other companies
-the high price makes them less commonly found among the general population
-CRK has been making sebenzas for almost 30 years, so they are well respected in the knife industry
-CRKs are the culmination of decades of constant improvement
-CRK has won a rediculous number of awards over the years, usually dominating the competition every year. Keep in mind that this isn't because they're putting out the latest and greatest gimmicks and craziest new designs; it's because they've been consistently putting out the best quality production knives for many many years, and what they do, they do better than anyone else.
-Oh and you get to join the CRK club and look super cool compared to all your friends that don't have CRKs
Well, that's all I can think of right now......oh boy, I have far too much time on my hands
Please feel free to make suggestions for additions or offer corrections if you notice something is incorrect. This is just what I've gathered from my research over the past year when I was looking into getting my first sebenza.
Most of this stuff is for the sebenza 21, but a lot of it overlaps to the other knives as well
1. CRK is VERY innovative in the knife industry:
-First to ever use the RIL (framelock) on a folding knife
-First to widely use Ti handles
-Invented the double dip pocket clip that helps with in-pocket retention
-One of the first companies to start using the technique of stone washing blades
-The only reason s35vn exists today is because of CRK, and to some extent the same is true for s30v
-First to use the ceramic ball detent that makes the knife even smoother because it avoids any sticking problems that traditional steel detent balls have
-Pioneered the minimalist design that is extremely durable, easy to maintain, and can be taken apart and put back together a million times without any issues.
2. Tolerences are tighter than the aerospace industry
-CRK builds their knives with machines that they built specifically for making their knives, and have had to develop over many years
-The knives are built to such tight tolerences that everything is absolutely flawless in how it fits together
-The knives are much more durable and long lasting because of this. They will last a lifetime if you don't abuse them
3. They are perfectly designed folders
-The blade to handle ratios are amazing
-They have all the features you could need, and none that you don't
-Ti is sandblasted for grip
-Detent is great
-Great lock geometry, and a very strong lockup.
-Ergonomics are impressive considering how straight the profile of the handle is
-Thin in pocket, both in width and thickness, making carrying the knives much easier
-Lightweight for their size because of the Ti, the compactness, and the minimalist design that doesn't require heavy steel liners in addition to scales
-They are simplistic in their design, which adds to their durability. Not much to break, and super easy to clean
-The Ti framelocks have been refined over the years to be absolutely the best on the market
-CRK has been constantly fine tuning the few designs they already have rather than making subpar new ones every year, so they are able to really get things as perfect as possible
-The 21 has a true hollow grind that is actually slightly thinner a little ways back from the edge, providing years of sharpening life before the cutting performance is negatively affected by the blade thickening up. The 25 is similar but has a shallower hollow grind to add a bit more strength to the blade.
4. The fit and finish is impeccable
-You won't find a more aesthetically flawless production knife out there
-looks fall under personal opinion, but the fit and finish is unquestionably awesome on CRKs
5. Premium materials
-S35vn at the hardness CRK runs it at is not the ultimate in edge retention, but its perfectly fine for everyday uses and will last a good long while, especially if you strop it regularly
-The steel is easy to sharpen because it's run a little softer
-The steel is tough enough to keep the blade from snapping or chipping at the edge
-Ti is very light and strong
-Hardware is high quality so the screws won't strip out on you
6. The pivot bushing system
-Combined with CRKs legendary fit and finish, this system makes it so that the knife is rock solid with absolutely NO blade play
-Centering is typically perfect
-the action is glassy smooth
-after being broken in, the blade will usually fall freely even though the pivot is tightened all the way down
-The pivot has notches cut out of the inside for grease to go in. This allows for the knife to stay lubed for longer
-the tight tolerences give it a "hydraulic" feel when opening and closing. The action isn't the fastest, but its very satisfying to the discerning knife user
7. Warranty and customer service are excellent
-As long as you don't abuse the knife, CRK will always be willing to fix anything wrong.
-Very good company to deal with that truly cares about its customers
-small shop that has few employees and is closely monitored by Chris Reeve and his wife. They're right on the border of being midtechs
-many of the knives are personally inspected by Chris before they leave the shop
-excellent QC that very few companies compare to
-They offer a free spa treatment for all standard sebenzas that includes sharpening, re-sand blasting the handles, and tuning the knife back to perfection
-they will replace blades for a fraction of the price of the knife, or for free if it turns out that they failed because of a manufacturing defect
-The knives come with a tool to take them apart because CRK trusts its customers and knows that it's almost impossible to mess the knives up
-they also come with a small complimentary tube of CRK flourinated grease, which is arguably the best stuff to use with their knives
8. Exclusivity
-each knife has a birthdate and comes with a signed card
-not too many are made compared to many other companies
-the high price makes them less commonly found among the general population
-CRK has been making sebenzas for almost 30 years, so they are well respected in the knife industry
-CRKs are the culmination of decades of constant improvement
-CRK has won a rediculous number of awards over the years, usually dominating the competition every year. Keep in mind that this isn't because they're putting out the latest and greatest gimmicks and craziest new designs; it's because they've been consistently putting out the best quality production knives for many many years, and what they do, they do better than anyone else.
-Oh and you get to join the CRK club and look super cool compared to all your friends that don't have CRKs
Well, that's all I can think of right now......oh boy, I have far too much time on my hands
Please feel free to make suggestions for additions or offer corrections if you notice something is incorrect. This is just what I've gathered from my research over the past year when I was looking into getting my first sebenza.
nyefmaker
Gold Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 6,257
Lemme see if I can make a list........
Most of this stuff is for the sebenza 21, but a lot of it overlaps to the other knives as well
1. CRK is VERY innovative in the knife industry:
-First to ever use the RIL (framelock) on a folding knife
-First to widely use Ti handles
-Invented the double dip pocket clip that helps with in-pocket retention
-One of the first companies to start using the technique of stone washing blades
-The only reason s35vn exists today is because of CRK, and to some extent the same is true for s30v
-First to use the ceramic ball detent that makes the knife even smoother because it avoids any sticking problems that traditional steel detent balls have
-Pioneered the minimalist design that is extremely durable, easy to maintain, and can be taken apart and put back together a million times without any issues.
2. Tolerences are tighter than the aerospace industry
-CRK builds their knives with machines that they built specifically for making their knives, and have had to develop over many years
-The knives are built to such tight tolerences that everything is absolutely flawless in how it fits together
-The knives are much more durable and long lasting because of this. They will last a lifetime if you don't abuse them
3. They are perfectly designed folders
-The blade to handle ratios are amazing
-They have all the features you could need, and none that you don't
-Ti is sandblasted for grip
-Detent is great
-Great lock geometry, and a very strong lockup.
-Ergonomics are impressive considering how straight the profile of the handle is
-Thin in pocket, both in width and thickness, making carrying the knives much easier
-Lightweight for their size because of the Ti, the compactness, and the minimalist design that doesn't require heavy steel liners in addition to scales
-They are simplistic in their design, which adds to their durability. Not much to break, and super easy to clean
-The Ti framelocks have been refined over the years to be absolutely the best on the market
-CRK has been constantly fine tuning the few designs they already have rather than making subpar new ones every year, so they are able to really get things as perfect as possible
-The 21 has a true hollow grind that is actually slightly thinner a little ways back from the edge, providing years of sharpening life before the cutting performance is negatively affected by the blade thickening up. The 25 is similar but has a shallower hollow grind to add a bit more strength to the blade.
4. The fit and finish is impeccable
-You won't find a more aesthetically flawless production knife out there
-looks fall under personal opinion, but the fit and finish is unquestionably awesome on CRKs
5. Premium materials
-S35vn at the hardness CRK runs it at is not the ultimate in edge retention, but its perfectly fine for everyday uses and will last a good long while, especially if you strop it regularly
-The steel is easy to sharpen because it's run a little softer
-The steel is tough enough to keep the blade from snapping or chipping at the edge
-Ti is very light and strong
-Hardware is high quality so the screws won't strip out on you
6. The pivot bushing system
-Combined with CRKs legendary fit and finish, this system makes it so that the knife is rock solid with absolutely NO blade play
-Centering is typically perfect
-the action is glassy smooth
-after being broken in, the blade will usually fall freely even though the pivot is tightened all the way down
-The pivot has notches cut out of the inside for grease to go in. This allows for the knife to stay lubed for longer
-the tight tolerences give it a "hydraulic" feel when opening and closing. The action isn't the fastest, but its very satisfying to the discerning knife user
7. Warranty and customer service are excellent
-As long as you don't abuse the knife, CRK will always be willing to fix anything wrong.
-Very good company to deal with that truly cares about its customers
-small shop that has few employees and is closely monitored by Chris Reeve and his wife. They're right on the border of being midtechs
-many of the knives are personally inspected by Chris before they leave the shop
-excellent QC that very few companies compare to
-They offer a free spa treatment for all standard sebenzas that includes sharpening, re-sand blasting the handles, and tuning the knife back to perfection
-they will replace blades for a fraction of the price of the knife, or for free if it turns out that they failed because of a manufacturing defect
-The knives come with a tool to take them apart because CRK trusts its customers and knows that it's almost impossible to mess the knives up
-they also come with a small complimentary tube of CRK flourinated grease, which is arguably the best stuff to use with their knives
8. Exclusivity
-each knife has a birthdate and comes with a signed card
-not too many are made compared to many other companies
-the high price makes them less commonly found among the general population
-CRK has been making sebenzas for almost 30 years, so they are well respected in the knife industry
-CRKs are the culmination of decades of constant improvement
-CRK has won a rediculous number of awards over the years, usually dominating the competition every year. Keep in mind that this isn't because they're putting out the latest and greatest gimmicks and craziest new designs; it's because they've been consistently putting out the best quality production knives for many many years, and what they do, they do better than anyone else.
-Oh and you get to join the CRK club and look super cool compared to all your friends that don't have CRKs
Well, that's all I can think of right now......oh boy, I have far too much time on my hands
Please feel free to make suggestions for additions or offer corrections if you notice something is incorrect. This is just what I've gathered from my research over the past year when I was looking into getting my first sebenza.
AWESOME POST.....!!! :thumbup::thumbup:
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 3,195
I agree with nyefmaker. Krissig12 has created the definitive list. Well done!!
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2014
- Messages
- 1,161
I love my Sebenza and will most likely never sell it. I appreciate every single thought and all the production that goes into making them. With that said I think they are overpriced by about $100. This is in no way a shot at CRK in any way, but just my honest opinion in their pricing.
My perspective as a new CRK owner... (Jan 16th, 2015)
I questioned whether or not it was worth it also. I went ahead and picked one up at the local gun and knife show. I'm glad I handled it first because I liked the 25 a lot better than the 21. I look at it as a tool I'll carry for a lifetime. I don't usually sell my stuff. Also, I'm banking on the top notch customer service when I send it to the spa. I thought it was 100-150 overpriced also.. Until.. I started thinking of all the innovation, engineering, materials, customer service, etc.. Highest Quality + Outstanding Customer Service = Higher Price. It is what it is. With all that said, I'm really enjoying the knife.
I questioned whether or not it was worth it also. I went ahead and picked one up at the local gun and knife show. I'm glad I handled it first because I liked the 25 a lot better than the 21. I look at it as a tool I'll carry for a lifetime. I don't usually sell my stuff. Also, I'm banking on the top notch customer service when I send it to the spa. I thought it was 100-150 overpriced also.. Until.. I started thinking of all the innovation, engineering, materials, customer service, etc.. Highest Quality + Outstanding Customer Service = Higher Price. It is what it is. With all that said, I'm really enjoying the knife.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2002
- Messages
- 7,265
I think that most people here would want their knives for $100.00 cheaper as I am sure that CRK would like to pay $50k less for each of the CNC machines that create these as well as about $7.00/hr cheaper for each competent employee..We could go on ad nauseum with tooling, taxes as well as environmental considerations/laws..Which, none of these are static..they change over time and not for the consumer.
Either way, I do get what you are saying. CRK is a small company..I seriously doubt they are rolling in the dough alot of people believe them to be..
BTW- pics..Post 'em up
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2014
- Messages
- 1,161
I think that most people here would want their knives for $100.00 cheaper as I am sure that CRK would like to pay $50k less for each of the CNC machines that create these as well as about $7.00/hr cheaper for each competent employee..We could go on ad nauseum with tooling, taxes as well as environmental considerations/laws..Which, none of these are static..they change over time and not for the consumer.
Either way, I do get what you are saying. CRK is a small company..I seriously doubt they are rolling in the dough alot of people believe them to be..
BTW- pics..Post 'em up
These do change for the consumer as the price for his knives rise. Its not like a Seb 21 has cost $410 since they were released. The price has risen accordingly. I'm in no way saying the knives are not "worth" the cost, but I do think they are overpriced. I doubt Chris is rolling in piles of money either, but he's definitely not missing a meal.
Don't take this as me trying to start a fight. This is not that in any way. He makes excellent knives and has the following to charge what he does and his knives fly off the shelves. I love my Seb 21 and do not regret paying what I did, but I still believe they are a bit overpriced. If I could somehow find out what the actual production cost of a Seb 21 cost to make I would possibly change my opinion though.
Maybe I wish they were cheaper so I could buy more.
