Reasonable Knife Evaluation

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Seems that Buck is all for show whereas this Richtig fellow walked the walk....Maybe that is the difference?

Did you miss the part about the nail cutting being a test that Buck's engineers do, not to be repeated by their customers?
So in essence they do walk the walk.

Nits anyone?
We're picking them by the bushel.
:D

How 'bout we go back to the big picture, eh?
Testing, even destructive testing, in context.
:D
 
(think proof testing of a firearm where a firearm is deliberately subjected to overpressure (abusive, yes))

Ugh, they actually measure pressure when they do those tests - doesn't do much good if you don't even know how much gunpowder you used in the shell or the pressure that resulted in the failure. And it also wouldn't tell you much if you used the same brass case or the same chamber damaged by a previous shot for every test (cumulative damage factor).

To compare the videos to real destructive testing, which is by the way being used less and less all the time, reveals a poor understanding of real testing. Google "boeing 787 wing box" to see a real destructive test. This is a test that can tell you something. Even the simplest tool test is done with much thought & effort to measure the quality that they want to test for. And they can defend their results. Feel free to defend the videos if you wish, but there is zero real product or material tests done in a similar fashion anywhere in industry or by testing agencies. Not one.

If you want to test how long a knife can be beat on with a steel hammer using varying impact locations and varying impact forces, then you should test a number of specimens before making conclusions, due to the random nature of the test.

If you want to test how well a knife can be used to batoned by a log into wood, then you should test by batoning with wood into wood.

If you really want to get fancy and learn even more, than devise a way to make the test repeatable (this IS an actual requirement in real testing, you know).

One test will not tell you the same thing as the other. It is likely that some could withstand 10 years of being hit by wood, and break after 10 hits with a steel hammer into a concrete block.

And it is entirely possible that the knife that breaks when used as a pry bar is the strongest pry bar, but you won't know that without measuring the force. You might think the knife that bent and then slipped out of the pry is better, but it failed (bent) with much less force than the knife that broke. And would you rather have a broken tip or a bent tip on your "survival hard use" knife?

I'm not trying to set an unrealistic level for testing, but there should be some thought on what you want to find out, and how to make a test measure it. BEFORE testing. And without repeatability, a test really doesn't tell you very much.
 
Did you miss the part about the nail cutting being a test that Buck's engineers do, not to be repeated by their customers?
So in essence they do walk the walk.

Nits anyone?
We're picking them by the bushel.
:D

How 'bout we go back to the big picture, eh?
Testing, even destructive testing, in context.
:D

No, in fact that is the point. Buck markets a logo all over showing their knife cutting through a bolt/nail, then in fine print tells the customer not to do as they do. This other fellow was out there actually showing his knives were capable of cutting through metals by doing it. Did he tell others not to do as he did? Not that I am aware of....
 
Ugh, they actually measure pressure when they do those tests - doesn't do much good if you don't even know how much gunpowder you used in the shell or the pressure that resulted in the failure. And it also wouldn't tell you much if you used the same brass case or the same chamber damaged by a previous shot for every test (cumulative damage factor).

To compare the videos to real destructive testing, which is by the way being used less and less all the time, reveals a poor understanding of real testing. Google "boeing 787 wing box" to see a real destructive test. This is a test that can tell you something. Even the simplest tool test is done with much thought & effort to measure the quality that they want to test for. And they can defend their results. Feel free to defend the videos if you wish, but there is zero real product or material tests done in a similar fashion anywhere in industry or by testing agencies. Not one.

If you want to test how long a knife can be beat on with a steel hammer using varying impact locations and varying impact forces, then you should test a number of specimens before making conclusions, due to the random nature of the test.

If you want to test how well a knife can be used to batoned by a log into wood, then you should test by batoning with wood into wood.

If you really want to get fancy and learn even more, than devise a way to make the test repeatable (this IS an actual requirement in real testing, you know).

One test will not tell you the same thing as the other. It is likely that some could withstand 10 years of being hit by wood, and break after 10 hits with a steel hammer into a concrete block.

And it is entirely possible that the knife that breaks when used as a pry bar is the strongest pry bar, but you won't know that without measuring the force. You might think the knife that bent and then slipped out of the pry is better, but it failed (bent) with much less force than the knife that broke. And would you rather have a broken tip or a bent tip on your "survival hard use" knife?

I'm not trying to set an unrealistic level for testing, but there should be some thought on what you want to find out, and how to make a test measure it. BEFORE testing. And without repeatability, a test really doesn't tell you very much.

The scientific validity of the Noss tests is not being debated, though they are perhaps closer to a scientific test than the usual subjective (feels good in the hand...) pablum we usually see. The OP has stated that ALL destructive knife testing is abusive, etc......

The videos are what they are. To some, entertainment, to others a data point. To still others, an obsession. The one man crusade against them reminds me of a book burner. Like others have said repeatedly, if they aren't to your tastes, ignore them....
 
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This thread is about reasonable knife evaluation. "Noss" is not involved. The topic and his activities are mutually exclusive.
 
The scientific validity of the Noss tests is not being debated, though they are perhaps closer to a scientific test than the usual subjective (feels good in the hand...) pablum we usually see. The OP has stated that ALL destructive knife testing is abusive, etc......

The videos are what they are. To some, entertainment, to others a data point. To still others, an obsession. The one man crusade against them reminds me of a book burner. Like others have said repeatedly, if they aren't to your tastes, ignore them....

Busselover,

The actual agenda of this thread is Noss's test

The rest is bluff
 
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