Rebuilding Civilization

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c10darren

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Nov 30, 2011
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There have been lots of SHTF and end of the world survival threads here. This is like one of those, but more long term. I am currently reading Lucifer's Hammer and I just watched Seeking a Friend for the End of the World, so apocalyptic scenarios have been on my mind. (Purely as entertainment...)

Here is my question.

What books would you want to rescue or salvage in the aftermath of the destruction of civilization? I figure that for the first year or so, simple survival texts would be useful. That's not what I'm talking about. At some point, humans are going to need information on how to grow crops, create bricks and pottery, smelt iron, tan leather, weave cloth, contruct a wheel, (Sure. You know what it is, but do you think you could actually build a wagonwheel?) and other long term knowledge. Basically, one or more repositories of all the very old technology that we take for granted in our daily lives.

I have looked a bit and I came up with one book that might be good (besides my one given, below). Etymologies of Isidore of Seville seems like a very good source. Has anyone read any of it? I'm curious.

What other books would you include in your "Rebuilding Civilization Kit?"

Also, because someone is going to say it... The Bible would be one of the books in my kit. I don't want to get into its various merits or its impact throughout history, but I think it needs to be included. Just my thoughts.
 
Honestly, maybe a puzzle book or some comics to pass the time.
Maybe if the world lost all reference to the past, it would take a whole lot longer for it to destroy itself again.
 
complete works of western and eastern philosophy, machinist hand book, a bunch of electrical, mechanical,materials engineering text books, the basics will probably be ok (types of mechanical movements, electronics math and conversions,ect ect) , a few books on anthropology might be of help, region specific might even be better,mountain guides and trail guides, and for my own personal enjoyment some locke,kant, and some Kerouac type stuff.
 
A book on edible plants and how to cultivate them.
I have a good book on building log cabins/houses.
Something to pass the time, like The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

I think I'd bring one more book too, hmmm, what would that be...:D
 
As far as rebuilding civilization goes, I say a big copy of the US Constitution annotated by yours truly.
 
"Surviving the Apocalypse for Dummies" :D


Seriously though, I think it's an interesting question. But if civilization crashed so badly that it would take books to rebuild it, I imagine I'd have much bigger things to worry about than finding books, or trying to rebuild the world. In such a situation, I'm sure that the survival of my family and I would be a full-time job.

Personally, I think it's a good idea to learn things BEFORE you need them. Things like auto mechanics, gunsmithing, ammo reloading, hunting, fishing, knot tying, wilderness survival, first aid, map and compass reading, etc, etc. Having knowledge already in your brain is much better than needing books. In a true survival situation, books would prove to be just extra weight to carry if you had to travel by foot, and you would just leave them behind anyways.
 
"A Canticle for Liebowitz" is a post-apocalyptic science fiction novel by American writer Walter M. Miller, Jr., first published in 1960. Set in a Catholic monastery in the desert of the southwestern United States after a devastating nuclear war, the story spans thousands of years as civilization rebuilds itself. The monks of the fictional Albertian Order of Leibowitz take up the mission of preserving the surviving remnants of man's scientific knowledge until the day the outside world is again ready for it.

The Foxfire Project: a writing project that led to a magazine and the series of best-selliing Foxfire books, twelve volumes in all. Topics included all manner of folklife practices and customs associated with farming and the rural life of southern Appalachia, as well as the folklore and oral history of local residents.
 
Good post. I've actually pondered something along those lines sometime back.

Esav Benyamin said:
"A Canticle for Liebowitz" is a post-apocalyptic science fiction novel by American writer Walter M. Miller, Jr., first published in 1960. Set in a Catholic monastery in the desert of the southwestern United States after a devastating nuclear war, the story spans thousands of years as civilization rebuilds itself. The monks of the fictional Albertian Order of Leibowitz take up the mission of preserving the surviving remnants of man's scientific knowledge until the day the outside world is again ready for it.

The Foxfire Project: a writing project that led to a magazine and the series of best-selliing Foxfire books, twelve volumes in all. Topics included all manner of folklife practices and customs associated with farming and the rural life of southern Appalachia, as well as the folklore and oral history of local residents.
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I've seen those on Amazon and thought about getting them. As base knowledge of the simple continuance, as well as furtherance, of life.

As I said, I've previously been thinking about something similar but can't really discuss it in detail right now since I'm at work, but for me, arguably the two most critical essential ingredients for rebuilding the simplest elements of a civilization are:

1. A sense of community or of each other. This is a pervading sense of belonging in which each member has a sense that he is doing something for a greater good of the group.

2. A set of standards. Laws are a natural by-product of this, but by standards I mean the common understanding of areas, boundaries, weights and measures, time, etc. that are uniformly accepted and observed by all.

That's all on top of my head for now. . .
 
Celtic Myths & Legends
Grimm brothers Fairie Tales
SAS Survival handbook
The Constitution/Magna Carta
The Iliad
 
Just for the hell of it, here are a few philisophical thoughts of mine on this subject-

If our human civilization did crumble, wouldn't that just prove that the ideas and principles it was built upon were flawed and doomed to failure? After all, if those ideas and principles were strong and sound, then civilization wouldn't have crumbled in the first place.

So, if you attempt to rebuild human civilization using the same methods, ideas, and principles that the old failed civilization was built on, wouldn't you just be setting up the new civilization for inevitable failure as well?

How does that saying go "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Or how about this one- "What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over agin and expecting a different result".

I look at it like this- If a bridge collapses because it was built with flawed engineering, and if you rebuild it using the same exact flawed engineering, it will simply collapse all over agin.

Like I said, just a few thoughts.
 
killgar said:
Just for the hell of it, here are a few philisophical thoughts of mine on this subject-

If our human civilization did crumble, wouldn't that just prove that the ideas and principles it was built upon were flawed and doomed to failure? After all, if those ideas and principles were strong and sound, then civilization wouldn't have crumbled in the first place.

So, if you attempt to rebuild human civilization using the same methods, ideas, and principles that the old failed civilization was built on, wouldn't you just be setting up the new civilization for inevitable failure as well?

How does that saying go "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Or how about this one- "What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over agin and expecting a different result".

I look at it like this- If a bridge collapses because it was built with flawed engineering, and if you rebuild it using the same exact flawed engineering, it will simply collapse all over agin.

Like I said, just a few thoughts.
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You make some good points there, but think about this... Lets say we decide things didn't work before and we want to follow the path that the early American Indians chose. Well, even they needed to know how to build a house. I know I could make a solid lean-to for the first few months of surviving, but at some point I am going to want a more significant house. So, how do I build it?

One of the biggest problems I have with post apocalyptic movies (I'm thinking of Book of Eli and Road Warrior) is that the entire society is built upon scavenging. The fact is, that is not sustainable. To progress, society needs skilled people who can craft goods and perform services. At some point, the world will no longer be able to scavenge fuel or repair engines. What then? Hopefully, there is someone still alive who can craft a wagonwheel, build a cart, twist strong rope, smelt iron and steel, and perhaps even raise horses or donkeys.

That is what I'm talking about. I mean WAYYYY more long term than just needing my copy of the SAS Survival Guide (which I do enjoy).
 
c10darren said:
One of the biggest problems I have with post apocalyptic movies (I'm thinking of Book of Eli and Road Warrior) is that the entire society is built upon scavenging. The fact is, that is not sustainable.
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The following is based on my opinion; I have no empirical or anecdotal evidence to back it up.

I think the movie makers have hit the "reality" of that pretty well. Most of your city dwellers won't have a clue and will resort to such because it is what is show in the movies and they have no other survival skills. City landscape / mob mentality will preclude people from being able to set up small sustainable farm / garden structures unless they are guarded 24/7.

To stay on topic.... I would like to have this printed out: http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page
 
Esav Benyamin said:
The Foxfire Project: a writing project that led to a magazine and the series of best-selliing Foxfire books, twelve volumes in all. Topics included all manner of folklife practices and customs associated with farming and the rural life of southern Appalachia, as well as the folklore and oral history of local residents.
Click to expand...

This would have to rank way up there on the "REQUIRED" list. Good pick sir.
 
Good point Number 4.

I suppose "a country boy can survive."

I figure we would need references for things in lots of different categories. Maybe one text in each of these fields...
1. Agriculture
2. Husbandry
3. Medicine and Anatomy
4. Math and Physics
5. Mechanical and Civil Engineering
6. Classical Philosophy
7. Morality and Ethics
8. Astronomy and Navigation
9. History

For classical philosophy something simple like the Norton Book of Classical Literature would do the trick. Maybe I could include a copy of the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and some of Thomas Payne's works. I have heard somewhere that Grey's Anatomy is a solid medical reference, but I've never read it myself.

As I write this, I keep adding topics to that list. The more I think about it, the more I over-think it. I guess I should remind myself that when I say "civil engineering," I really mean "how to make a brick."
 
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ron_m80 said:
This would have to rank way up there on the "REQUIRED" list. Good pick sir.
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There was a time that Foxfire books always got referenced among the early survivalist discussions.
They also got recommended among anthropologists, which is how I found them. :)
 
ron_m80 said:
This would have to rank way up there on the "REQUIRED" list. Good pick sir.
Click to expand...

There was a time that Foxfire books always got referenced among the early survivalist discussions.
They also got recommended among anthropologists, which is how I found them. :)

Appalachian culture largely derived from Scots and Scots-Irish, who also excelled in engineering.
 
"If our human civilization did crumble, wouldn't that just prove that the ideas and principles it was built upon were flawed and doomed to failure? After all, if those ideas and principles were strong and sound, then civilization wouldn't have crumbled in the first place."

Not necessarily. There is always the possibility that the ideas and principles were fine but the practice of those ideas and principles were flawed.
 
killgar said:
If our human civilization did crumble, wouldn't that just prove that the ideas and principles it was built upon were flawed and doomed to failure? After all, if those ideas and principles were strong and sound, then civilization wouldn't have crumbled in the first place.

So, if you attempt to rebuild human civilization using the same methods, ideas, and principles that the old failed civilization was built on, wouldn't you just be setting up the new civilization for inevitable failure as well?
Click to expand...

What if it weren't our civilization that crumbled? When the Mongols washed across Central Asia, continuing their devastation into Africa and Europe, the lands they conquered had been doing pretty well. The Mongols hit them like that asteroid hit the dinosaurs, unforeseen destruction.

Rebuilding after that took centuries, some areas never recovered. Others militarized to be ready for another assault. Deliberately preserving the best of technology and culture would make the next time around easier. Anything to keep the survivors from having to reinvent the wheel -- or electricity -- would be a big help.
 
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