Received my Vantage Pro Small today and immediately sent it back to Buck

mbjannusch said:
I don't say this very often, but this is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. So, I have to buy a custom shop 110 with S30v steel to expect to get a knife that comes to me in proper form. Just because you have lowered your standards enough to except sub-standard merchandise because it doesn't effect the usability is absurd.
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I agree; I don't know why someone feels like their standards are THE standards for all. A little more than just egotistical, no?

I always like it when these things get personalized, and someone has to roll out their credentials to impress others to back up their opinion. ( I have a mental picture of someone waving a cane in the air saying "why... when I was your age, *fill in blank here*, and you kids get off my grass!!!!)

I thought this was a nice voicing of opinions until the senior citizen chastising the younger guy and professional vocation posturing started.

Personally, I don't care if someone is happy with a sharpened screwdriver in their pocket if they like it. With that in mind, I don't understand the indignant posturing and age/credential slinging when calling out others that don't agree with an opinion of what a knife should be.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. Inexpensive doesn't have to mean cheaply made. Anyone hear of those old saws?

mbjannusch said:
There is a problem with the design of this knife, PERIOD. Buck needs to fix the issues, whether there are some that will let it slide or the others that send them back.
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I agree. This is an obvious issue with this knife, and apparently Buck just hasn't seen fit to remedy it. I have no doubt they will fix that knife upon return, but selling a product that doesn't even meet their own normal quality standards seems foolish. It is important to remember though that sometimes other projects take precedent, and this one may be moving towards the front. Unless Joe Houser chimes in here, we won't ever know.

After 30 years in business (self employed) myself doing craft type work, I can say that there is no acceptable excuse for poor quality. And in the end, it will indeed bite you in the ass.

I am still trying to figure out how one gets so closely and personally involved with a monsterously huge multi million dollar manufacturer that they feel their opinion of the manufacturer and its product is beyond reproach..... I thought everyone made mistakes now and then.....

Robert
 
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mbjannusch said:
I don't say this very often, but this is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. So, I have to buy a custom shop 110 with S30v steel to expect to get a knife that comes to me in proper form. Just because you have lowered your standards enough to except sub-standard merchandise because it doesn't effect the usability is absurd. If an off centered knife is no "BIG WHOOP" I hope you're not an engineer for anything important, where lives are at stake. If your willing to compromise on something as small as your knife what else are you willing to let slide.

There is a problem with the design of this knife, PERIOD. Buck needs to fix the issues, whether there are some that will let it slide or the others that send them back.
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Well said MB, Bottom line is: it's not that the flaw is small, or affects use. Actually, that has nothing to do with it. When I buy something new with my money, I expect it to be free of defects..period. See how many people would be okay with their $500 knife having scratches, or off-centered blades, etc.

Again, well said
 
I haven't owned one, so I can't comment on the problems with the Vantage. We have to remember that most of us here are fanatics with our knives, while the average consumer will never notice most of th ethings we notice. It may make better sense for Buck to repair the ones that are sent in, instead of fixing the problem... I'm not saying Buck doesn't care, but from a business standpoint it make make better sense if its an expensive tooling fix...

We all know Case knives, they have been around for years, and make a great product. A few years back, they came out with a completely new pattern, the SwayBack Jack. The reviews have been nothing short of outstanding, with some saying they rival some customs. Some of the other patterns still have hit and miss quality from what some say. Most have come to the conclusion the outstanding quality is because all the tooling for this new pattern, is new.

Hope this made sense, the coffee hasn't kicked in.
 
I won't get into the blade grind problems but I had a thought after reading time after time, folks slamming the Vantage for off centered blades. I dug out several other linerlock models made by Buck and took a good look at them. I checked (so far) two Kalingas, two Alpha Hunters, two Alpha Dorados and my two 110 linerlocks, and guess what. Not one of the blades in any of those are perfectly centered. One of my two Mayo TNT's is centered, but the one Waimea I have is not centered. Each and everyone is closer to the side opposite the liner lock. I did check one other that was centered but it's a Chinese made Sandman and has a very weak feeling lock, maybe not putting as much pressure on the blade as the others.

Couldn't it just be that the liner lock on about any of them tend to push the blade to the opposite side?
 
I forgot the CSAR-T! It's also off centered from the factory. I tried tightening the blade pivot screw and it did center, but then was way too tight to open easily with the thumb stud.
 
my first vantage was a small paperstone...centered blade...flipped nice ...till it got all "bindy". Didn't like that so returned after one day.
Vantage #2 ordered from Buck ...Small pro...flipped nice...but blade rubbing on liner opposite linerlock... no amount of pivot screw adjustment helped...
loosened pivot screw way out and kind of tourqued the frame a little... funny thing but now blade perfectly centered...and after adjusting the pivot tension back to where i wanted it it flips real nice.
perhaps part of the problem is how well the frame sides line up with the minimum of cross support that was engineered into this design.
I have 7 other Buck linerlocks...all older designs ...and several other brands where all of the blades are centered closed.
Perhaps BG42 was correct about the speed of assembly causing these problems.
 
Well I guess I have had good luck with most of my Vantages. I looked at all of them. I looked at 9 in total, 2 of which were small charcoal diamondwood vantages and all were centered and flicked out. I have a force pro,avid and select, two BOND ARMS vantages( the red wood and black ash) two large charcoal diamond wood and all are centered. I think if you get a bad one, you should send it back and get one that works and looks properly. Write a letter and tell them you want one that is centered in the blade well and express your concerns...
 
Hm, now that Plumberdv mentions and I think about it, almost every production linerlock knife I've handled has been off-center, at least a little bit. The only linerlock knife I've ever gotten that was perfectly centered new out of the box was my Spyderco Tenacious. I've centered the blades in all my knives to the best of my ability, unless centering the blade renders it unflippable/unopenable. To my knowledge, I'm the only one of my buddies who cares enough to center my blades. The blades in every other linerlock that my friends have are all off center, and this covers brands such as Buck, CRKT, Gerber, Kershaw, and even Zero Tolerance (yes, I know ZT is Kershaw, but they're the higher end line). Amongst all our knives, the Kershaws and ZTs are, interestingly, off-center towards the liner-lock side. All the others are off-center, even if just a little, to the non-lock side.

In that light, I sort of wonder why there seem to be so many reports of the Vantage having off-center blades when closed when it seems many liner locks share the same problem. On the other hand, I don't think I've seen as many reports of a particular model having an issue with the blade rubbing the liner either.

I've started to think a little more like 338375 noted, that perhaps I'm being overly critical of the cosmetic aspects of production knives in the price ranges I'm looking at. My other knife buddies are much more of the view that a knife is merely a tool and, as such, cosmetic flaws don't seem to bother them at all as long as the knife still operates fine.

Anyway, I wish Misanthropia luck with the replacement Vantage from Buck, and I hope Buck's CS does him right. I've never dealt with their customer service, but from what I understand, they're great.
 
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I have 25+ different Vantages in all levels of steel and handles. None of them rub the liner causing a mark on the blade or hard opening. Do any of them sit off centered in the closed position? I could not tell you, nor could I care less. I have about a 100 Kershaws that are liner locks and I could not tell you if any of them are off centered either. I know we all have differing levels of perfection in a new product, but I am ok if a knife is not centered when it is closed, so long as their is no issue with the function of the knife.

I must admit that after collecting knives for 45+ years, the last 6 or so that I have been a member here, I have looked at things that I would never have noticed before. That said, I have also come to the conclusion that for me and my taste, most of these issues really are not as important as the some what obessive collectors seems to make it. Perhaps I am not the perfectionist some are, and I get that, but to constantly find small issues with mass produced knives does only harm to the product line as a whole. I will explain this way, I have a friend who knows very little about knives and wanted to buy one, so I recommended Buck and Kershaw. He Goggled them both and told me those are not good brands as there is alot of comments and reviews saying there are many issues with them, This is what is out there for people to read, not because there are really serious issues, but because a small part of the customer base has become overly critical over small issues....
 
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tom19176, I have roughly the same number (of Vantages) as you and I've given at least six away to friends and as "tips". The only one I've run across so far that rubbed the liner was one of my new Force models. The blade was right against the liner, but a slight tightening of the pivot screw fixed that. No big deal. I gave a new in the box Vantage Avid to a young technician who came to my house last Thursday to trouble shoot my DishNetwork system and upgrade three receivers. The blade was perfectly centered in it, but it was a little stiff to open using the flipper so I spent five minutes or so adjusting the pivot screw until I reached a good compromise between centering and ease of opening. I can see where even that short length of time spent fine tuning it would cause problems in a production line setting.

I also located and checked out a couple of nicer American made linerlocks that I have, a Case Amber Bone RussLock and one from Canal Street Cutlery. Neither are real high end knives but both cost more than the majority of the Vantages sold. BOTH of their blades are off center to the side opposite the lock. I think after looking at all these linerlocks that I own, that the off center blade issue is more a product of the design, and not poor QC.

Just my opinion, but I think there are too many mountains being made out of molehills. Where is it written that a perfectly centered blade is required for a knife to be "perfect"? I can perfectly center any of the Vantage blades by tightening the pivot screw, but then they're too tight. If the folks at Buck did the same, they would be getting them back by the hundreds because they were too hard to open!
 
I'm finding this off centered blade subject interesting enough to dig out a bunch of linerlocks to check out. I looked at four Tempests, three Sirus and one Rush. Out of those eight, only three had blades that were perfectly centered, but none rubbed the frame. I also checked two German made Boker Tree Brand liner locks and low and behold, they were both off center also. I seem to detect a pattern.
 
I have looked at all my Spidercos and they are all dead straight on. If they can do it why cant Buck...
 
I've got one I found in a parking lot that's called an "MTech USA." (Made in China.)

It centers perfectly and opens real smooth.

;)
 
The topic of blade centering in linerlock knives is of enough interest to me to almost qualify as an excuse to take a trip to the nearby surplus store to look at their knives :p
 
Actually, my 110FG is off center also, to the side that would normally be the non-lock side on a liner-lock knife. And my 486 Bucklite MAX folder is off center towards the side that would be the lock on a liner-lock.

I have now come to be of the opinion that this is just one of those areas of F&F that I'm not going to be concerned with anymore in a production knife. After seeing so many off-center blades across various models and companies (ie, every single folding knife my buddies and I own, with the exception of my Tenacious), as long as the blade doesn't rub the liners or scales I'm fine.
 
Yes......I've found this whole thread to be quite a good one.

Truth is, I doubt that I'd notice an off-center blade unless it was scratched up from hitting the frame or something.

Then I'd be rightfully upset, but I wouldn't care otherwise.

:)
 
I own two Vantages, a large Dymondwood and a large paperstone. Both blades were off center. I tightened the pivot screw and itdid make the bade hard to flip open. I added a little knife oil to the pivot and it flips out smoothly now. I'm thouroughly satisfied with both knives.
 
BG,
We all Know you love your 110/112s and rightfully so, its a great knife. That being said lets try to stay on subject.

I dont think its a design flaw, otherwise all liner locking knives would be off center and that would just be the the norm. Its a production/QC issue and ultimately Buck will either fix the problem of they won't . We could look at every liner locking knife manufactured and some will be off center and some won't. I don't care about every other manufacturer of knives I really only care about Buck. I hope they decide to look into the issues that have been beat to death on this and other forums and fix it. Maybe it cant be fixed, then what? We just live with it and either continue to buy them or find another model to buy...
 
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