Fisher of Men
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HK .45
Awesome handgun!
Awesome handgun!
-
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recommend me a handgun?
- Thread starter Midget
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IF you ever forsee the possibility of owning more than one handgun, I'd get a Browning Buckmark in .22 long rifle as a first. It's a great, reliable gun (though I must confess I got my Colt Gov't first 
). .22 is dirt cheap to practice with and you can get this model Browning for around 300 bucks brand new, it's a LOT of fun to shoot and I don't go broke feeding it like I did when I was just shooting .45s and .357s. 
). .22 is dirt cheap to practice with and you can get this model Browning for around 300 bucks brand new, it's a LOT of fun to shoot and I don't go broke feeding it like I did when I was just shooting .45s and .357s. 
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Dont know about where you live but one of the local firing ranges has pistols you can rent , this is a good way to find out what you want. Of course I'm assuming you've been thru some safety training and have passed your test.
(In California we have to take a basic firearms safety test).
All that aside , I own a Astra A100 in 9mm , some folks will call an Astra a 'cheap' pistol , well price wise sure but not in quality and reliability. I've had it for going on eight years now and fired God knows how many rounds thru it without a single jam , pretty damn good for a semi.Astra is made in Spain , they have conversion kits for about a hundred bucks , I can easily turn my 9mm into a 40 or 45 , kinda cool.
I also have a S&W airlight in .38 that fits in my hand like it was made for it , awesome little pistol , in retrospect I wish I would have bought a 357 only so I could benfiit from both calibers in the same gun, Kinda nice if your 'in a jam'.
A .22 is nice to practice with , ammo is cheap
Good luck and be safe
(In California we have to take a basic firearms safety test).
All that aside , I own a Astra A100 in 9mm , some folks will call an Astra a 'cheap' pistol , well price wise sure but not in quality and reliability. I've had it for going on eight years now and fired God knows how many rounds thru it without a single jam , pretty damn good for a semi.Astra is made in Spain , they have conversion kits for about a hundred bucks , I can easily turn my 9mm into a 40 or 45 , kinda cool.
I also have a S&W airlight in .38 that fits in my hand like it was made for it , awesome little pistol , in retrospect I wish I would have bought a 357 only so I could benfiit from both calibers in the same gun, Kinda nice if your 'in a jam'.
A .22 is nice to practice with , ammo is cheap
Good luck and be safe
i would get either a .38/.357 revolver or a 9mm or .40 S&W auto, a S&W mod 586/686/65/66 in .357 w/a 4" bbl (or longer but i prefer the 4" myself) would be good or a glock 22/23/17/19 or a SIG P226/P225/P239 in 9 or 40 would be good also, i have 3 SIGS and 4 glocks, i KINDA prefer the glock now myself, but SIG is also very good.
ya would have to really look for a SIG in the price range ya mentioned (is possible though i got a P225 for $389 LNIB a few yrs back). revolvers are getting expensive also, but i see second hand ones for $350 to $500 at the gun show, glocks too.
ya would have to really look for a SIG in the price range ya mentioned (is possible though i got a P225 for $389 LNIB a few yrs back). revolvers are getting expensive also, but i see second hand ones for $350 to $500 at the gun show, glocks too.
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Midget said:I know nothing about firearms except how to fire them (some of them).
*need reliability
*must use a common round
*mid size. not worried about concealability b/c i won't be carrying it around, but also i'm not after a handcannon.
*versatility.
i'm not a collector, i don't plan on ever owning more than one handgun, i'm not a tactical superhero, and i'd rather just get the "right" handgun and not think about it anymore. basically, i'm looking for the "spyderco" of the handgun world. glock guys, speak your mind
1. .38 Special
2. Stainless
3. Revolver
4. 4" barrel.
Reasons?
1. As close to 100% reliable as any machine gets.
2. Relatively low, non-intimidating recoil.
3. Cheap ammo, available everywhere.
4. The revolver itself can be had cheaply second-hand.
5. Stainless for low maintenance.
6. Doesn't scream "Armchair commando who's drooling to kill someone."
7. No complicated buttons, switches or "failure to fire" drills for a non-gun bloke like you. Simply press the trigger again.
8. .38 Special is an intrinsically-accurate round.
9. .38 Special is available in loads to accomplish virtually any reasonable task.
10. If you buy a .357 or a .45, you'll never practice. The ammo is pricey and the noise and blast are spectacular. The only skill you'll develop will be a flinch of biblical proportions!
Attach a set of grips which are actually designed to fit the human hand. Buy a truckload of target wadcutter reloads and hie thee hence to the range. Once there, learn how to HIT, not just how to shoot! Learn stance, breathing and trigger control. Ignore the off-duty mall ninjas hurling lead downrange from their race guns. They'll crow about how fast they can put 15 rounds into a dustbin-sized group at 25 yards. Smile and carry on cutting the X-ring out of the target...
Remember that "Perfect practice makes perfect."
maximus otter
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maximus otter said:
I agree with all you said otter, except for #10. A .357 will fire .38 ammo just fine, and gives you the option of high power ammo if you decide you need it. If he has $500 to spend I see absolutely no reason to limit this option just to save a few dollars up front. Also, a person's reaction to recoil varies greatly from one individual to the next. I have a very light build (133 lbs according to my weigh-in this morning) and think nothing at all of shooting a large frame .44 magnum or a 1911 in .45. My 4" barrel .38 kicks harder with +P ammo than a standard velocity .45 does. I'm sorry if this post seems argumentative, but I think it's a bad idea to steer someone away from an excellent caliber based on factors that depend so heavily on personal taste and tolerance.
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Also I'll weigh in on the .357 vs. .38 debate. I shoot standard load fmj 130gr 38s a lot to save money but for defense I ALWAYS carry Federal 357B which is the full load 125-gr .357, I found the 158 Hydrashocks to be a bit too much to control in rapid-fire shooting, recoil messed up my aim, but I don't find the 125 to be bad but you better get a 4-6in barrel, in a snub they're pure hell to fire. I said all that to say this: YOU can get LIGHT LOAD .357s that are easier to shoot than a full-load and are still balistically better than ANY .38 (namely the Remington 125-gr Golder Saber and Federal 130-gr Personl Defense Hydrashock, there are others from other brands too). Also if you choose to go .38 for defense you'll be best off with Remington or Winchester 158-gr +P Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point. Also, even if you just use it as a .38 a .357 will hold up much better shooting +P than a .38 will. IF you decide to get a revolver I'd get a Smith 686 (.357) with a 4-6 inch barrel. BTW a 6-in with Pachmayr grips will make full load .357 MUCH easier to handle.
OR you could just get a 1911. If you want good stopping power/NO recoil get a S&W 44mag N-frame a load it with 44specials, either silvertips or lead semi-wadcutter hollow points.
OR you could just get a 1911. If you want good stopping power/NO recoil get a S&W 44mag N-frame a load it with 44specials, either silvertips or lead semi-wadcutter hollow points.
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I have both a Sig Sauer 2340 and a Glock 27. Both models are .40 caliber. I like that because they're more effective than a 9mm and not as overpowering as a 10mm. I can't be happier with either of them.
Both have great trigger action and are very accurate. I'm not the best shot in the world, but I can shoot about 4" groups at about 20-25 yards on both (personally, I can routinely shoot tighter groups with my Glock...might have to do with the trigger pull being smoother and more consistent).
The Glock 27 is easier for concealed carry (though I'll carry the Sig if I'm wearing the appropriate clothing), but wouldn't hesitate to use it for home protection--it's certainly not too small.
Since I have two young kids, I have a quick access gun safes for each (each is in different strategic locations in my house for tactical access if the need arises) made by Mossberg (unfortunately, this model is no longer being made). To gain access, one needs only to enter a six digit code and the lid automatically pops up. This only takes a couple seconds. They have audible alarms if someone's been tampering with the keypad, trying to gain access when they shouldn't. The alarm sounds if three consecutive wrong codes have been entered. Then it gives me a special tone when I next gain access to alert me of the unauthorized access attempts. It also has a lighted keypad and dim red light for seeing what you're doing in the dark. I think gun safes (or other locking devices) is mandatory and responsible for gun owners (especially those with kids).
I did a lot of research before buying my handguns and both of these received great reviews. Having shot many guns over the years, there's a variety across the board of everything from great guns the crappy guns. There's some handguns that are better than mine, but a ton that come in below. In my opinion, though the Glock is a relatively ugly gun (its appearance has grown on me), it possess the best bang-for-the-buck out there! Also, I'd recommend just about everything from either Glock or Sig Sauer.
As you've read, there's many opinions on which type of handgun is better--revolver versus automatic. I earnestly come down on the side of the automatic. In my opinion, if one's found a quality and simple functioning DA (double action) or DAO (double action only) handgun, it will routinely out perform the "wheel gun" all the time. It's easy to find guns with clips that will hold more rounds than a revolver. Jamming issues have been virtually eliminated. Though supporters of revolvers will say it's just as fast shooting a revolver than an automatic, I believe that for novices and those with moderate skills (which is by far, most of us), it's easier and quicker to accurately shoot an automatic. Also, look at the military and law enforcement choices for guns...automatics, hands down. There's many other reasons too, but I've become much to verbose here and I'm getting tired and need to stop typing. [But I'll keep on going anyway...]
I'll easily echo the taking of gun safety and training classes for everyone! Without this, one will accidentlly put a round though a wall of their home, shoot off a toe, or put a round in their best friend (we've all read the news stories). I've had gun safety courses and proficiency training...but one cannot have enough. Also, regular shooting and training is essential in being both safe and proficient. So often have I heard of those who purchase a handgun and either decide they have all they need to defend themselves (a handgun) or they'll take a course or two and decide they have enough for their entire life to defend themselves. These are huge misconceptions and not nearly enough people that are ready to shoot their gun in an emergency situation (not to mention on the shooting range).
There are certainly many wonderful handguns out there and there have been a number of wonderful suggestions here already. I'd suggest that you stretch a little higher than your $500 maximum (for everything). Your handgun alone with be about $500 for the minimum of something that shoots well and is reliable ($200-300 more for something even better...without being "spectacular"). Your other supplies (depending on how much you purchase) will run a minimum of $100 and could run several hundred. If you ever think of possibly carrying your gun, a quality holster is needed. I have leather Galco holsters for each and several other holster for my Glock.
BTW...next on my "to buy" list is a quality 1911. Though Colt has several that interest me, I'll likely go with Kimber (many of those have strongly interested me!), or maybe Para Ordinance, or something in the range of those. I'm open. It's way too easy, though, to spend a mountain of money on a quality 1911.
Best of luck and make sure you let us know what you've finally decided.
Below are pictures of my handguns, holsters, and gunsafe.
Both have great trigger action and are very accurate. I'm not the best shot in the world, but I can shoot about 4" groups at about 20-25 yards on both (personally, I can routinely shoot tighter groups with my Glock...might have to do with the trigger pull being smoother and more consistent).
The Glock 27 is easier for concealed carry (though I'll carry the Sig if I'm wearing the appropriate clothing), but wouldn't hesitate to use it for home protection--it's certainly not too small.
Since I have two young kids, I have a quick access gun safes for each (each is in different strategic locations in my house for tactical access if the need arises) made by Mossberg (unfortunately, this model is no longer being made). To gain access, one needs only to enter a six digit code and the lid automatically pops up. This only takes a couple seconds. They have audible alarms if someone's been tampering with the keypad, trying to gain access when they shouldn't. The alarm sounds if three consecutive wrong codes have been entered. Then it gives me a special tone when I next gain access to alert me of the unauthorized access attempts. It also has a lighted keypad and dim red light for seeing what you're doing in the dark. I think gun safes (or other locking devices) is mandatory and responsible for gun owners (especially those with kids).
I did a lot of research before buying my handguns and both of these received great reviews. Having shot many guns over the years, there's a variety across the board of everything from great guns the crappy guns. There's some handguns that are better than mine, but a ton that come in below. In my opinion, though the Glock is a relatively ugly gun (its appearance has grown on me), it possess the best bang-for-the-buck out there! Also, I'd recommend just about everything from either Glock or Sig Sauer.
As you've read, there's many opinions on which type of handgun is better--revolver versus automatic. I earnestly come down on the side of the automatic. In my opinion, if one's found a quality and simple functioning DA (double action) or DAO (double action only) handgun, it will routinely out perform the "wheel gun" all the time. It's easy to find guns with clips that will hold more rounds than a revolver. Jamming issues have been virtually eliminated. Though supporters of revolvers will say it's just as fast shooting a revolver than an automatic, I believe that for novices and those with moderate skills (which is by far, most of us), it's easier and quicker to accurately shoot an automatic. Also, look at the military and law enforcement choices for guns...automatics, hands down. There's many other reasons too, but I've become much to verbose here and I'm getting tired and need to stop typing.
[But I'll keep on going anyway...]I'll easily echo the taking of gun safety and training classes for everyone! Without this, one will accidentlly put a round though a wall of their home, shoot off a toe, or put a round in their best friend (we've all read the news stories). I've had gun safety courses and proficiency training...but one cannot have enough. Also, regular shooting and training is essential in being both safe and proficient. So often have I heard of those who purchase a handgun and either decide they have all they need to defend themselves (a handgun) or they'll take a course or two and decide they have enough for their entire life to defend themselves. These are huge misconceptions and not nearly enough people that are ready to shoot their gun in an emergency situation (not to mention on the shooting range).
There are certainly many wonderful handguns out there and there have been a number of wonderful suggestions here already. I'd suggest that you stretch a little higher than your $500 maximum (for everything). Your handgun alone with be about $500 for the minimum of something that shoots well and is reliable ($200-300 more for something even better...without being "spectacular"). Your other supplies (depending on how much you purchase) will run a minimum of $100 and could run several hundred. If you ever think of possibly carrying your gun, a quality holster is needed. I have leather Galco holsters for each and several other holster for my Glock.
BTW...next on my "to buy" list is a quality 1911. Though Colt has several that interest me, I'll likely go with Kimber (many of those have strongly interested me!), or maybe Para Ordinance, or something in the range of those. I'm open. It's way too easy, though, to spend a mountain of money on a quality 1911.
Best of luck and make sure you let us know what you've finally decided.
Below are pictures of my handguns, holsters, and gunsafe.
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Kohai999 said:
I tried them. I guess I just didn't like the overall "feel" of that gun. (I doubt if I shot more than a few hundred rounds through it before I 'retired' it to the back of the safe.)
Love my Glocks!
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I'm thinking of getting a fullsize Glock .45 ACP (I like to keep guns of just a few calibers, saves on ammo cost, revolver I'm a .357/.38 gun, autoloader I like .45s). Any opinions on the fullsize Glock .45 ACP lemme hear em, I just like the theory of have a RELIABLE high-cap .45 for home defense. BTW if I get one, it would be my first Glock and first polymer gun, but definatley not my first gun
To Ron Anderson regarding 1911s. Do NOT buy a high-cap Para-ord (and it might be a good idea to aviod Paras all together) I read a lot of reviews and talk to a lot of other guys that shoot 1911s and I have not heard one good thing about their high-cap models. I've heard their single stacks are OK, but nothing special. I've NEVER heard anything negative about Kimber but have never had the pleasure to actually handle one so I can't personally comment, but people say they are awesome. I'm personally a Colt man, you cannot go wrong with any new 80 series. Also, I just have to add this, Smith and Wesson has come out with the SW1911 (checked one out in a gunshop the other day and I can't wait to get one ) I have heard nothing but great reviews on the gun and you can get one (with features that cost a fortune on a Colt or Kimber) for less than the cost of a standard Colt. Also, if you don't mind spending big bucks check out Wilson Combat. Springfied Armory is good too, but I like Colt better. Good luck.
To Ron Anderson regarding 1911s. Do NOT buy a high-cap Para-ord (and it might be a good idea to aviod Paras all together) I read a lot of reviews and talk to a lot of other guys that shoot 1911s and I have not heard one good thing about their high-cap models. I've heard their single stacks are OK, but nothing special. I've NEVER heard anything negative about Kimber but have never had the pleasure to actually handle one so I can't personally comment, but people say they are awesome. I'm personally a Colt man, you cannot go wrong with any new 80 series. Also, I just have to add this, Smith and Wesson has come out with the SW1911 (checked one out in a gunshop the other day and I can't wait to get one
) I have heard nothing but great reviews on the gun and you can get one (with features that cost a fortune on a Colt or Kimber) for less than the cost of a standard Colt. Also, if you don't mind spending big bucks check out Wilson Combat. Springfied Armory is good too, but I like Colt better. Good luck.
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Roadrunner said:
I didn't read it that way, Roadrunner. Your opinions are always interesting and - more importantly - informed.
As I see it, the "problem" with owning a .357 is that one would end up being tempted to use .357 ammo in it exclusively. You don't buy a turbo-charged car and decide not to use the turbo! Hence my comments about blast, cost & flinch.
maximus otter
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Oh, I know I left some out. Thanks for the reminder of a couple nice 1911 manufacturers.Spydiefan04 said:
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SIFU1A said:
Hehe, yeah I've always thought one of those would be quite an 'experience' to shoot. Could be fun for a couple of rounds; but then again I'm a little warped that way. I can't wait to get a chance to try out the S&W .500.
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First on the list for a home defense weapon is a 12 gauge pump shotgun, like your basic Mossberg 500. (Don't get the one with the pistol grip.)
For a handgun, a .38/.57 like the 4" barrelled S&W 686 is just fine. Simple, effective, and utterly reliable. However, keep in mind that if you fire a .357 round indoors without ear protection, you will be functionally deaf for several hours afterwards, and you will suffer some permanent hearing loss. All centerfire pistol rounds will ring your bell without hearing protection, but magnums are in a whole different league.
For semiautos, you've got three basic choices: single action, double action, and what Glock calls safe action. To be ready to fire, a single action like the 1911 must have the hammer cocked. It has a very light trigger pull (about 3-4 pounds) and a manual safety that you must release before firing. Generally, not recommended for new shooters.
Double action, such as the Sigs and Berettas, starts with the hammer down. The first trigger pull is long and heavy (about 8-9 pounds) as the hammer draws back and is then released. The hammer then stays back for subsequent rounds, so the trigger pull is much lighter (about 4 pounds). There may or may not be a manual safety. Double action is inherently safer than single action, but it takes some practice to get that first round on target.
Glocks and the like have a relatively light trigger pull (about five pounds) that is the same for every shot and no manual safety. This makes them very easy to operate, but you have to be more careful with them than a double action. Glocks also have a strange feeling trigger pull that is different from every other type of handgun. Some people like it and some hate it.
As to semi-auto calibers, I prefer .45 ACP. In my opinion, 9mm is too light and has too much danger of overpenetration. I think 40S&W is the least accurate and has the most recoil of the big three semi-auto rounds.
If your just looking to buy a house weapon that will stay in the house, go with the revolver. Get a semi-auto only if you plan to go to the range fairly often and practice with it.
For a handgun, a .38/.57 like the 4" barrelled S&W 686 is just fine. Simple, effective, and utterly reliable. However, keep in mind that if you fire a .357 round indoors without ear protection, you will be functionally deaf for several hours afterwards, and you will suffer some permanent hearing loss. All centerfire pistol rounds will ring your bell without hearing protection, but magnums are in a whole different league.
For semiautos, you've got three basic choices: single action, double action, and what Glock calls safe action. To be ready to fire, a single action like the 1911 must have the hammer cocked. It has a very light trigger pull (about 3-4 pounds) and a manual safety that you must release before firing. Generally, not recommended for new shooters.
Double action, such as the Sigs and Berettas, starts with the hammer down. The first trigger pull is long and heavy (about 8-9 pounds) as the hammer draws back and is then released. The hammer then stays back for subsequent rounds, so the trigger pull is much lighter (about 4 pounds). There may or may not be a manual safety. Double action is inherently safer than single action, but it takes some practice to get that first round on target.
Glocks and the like have a relatively light trigger pull (about five pounds) that is the same for every shot and no manual safety. This makes them very easy to operate, but you have to be more careful with them than a double action. Glocks also have a strange feeling trigger pull that is different from every other type of handgun. Some people like it and some hate it.
As to semi-auto calibers, I prefer .45 ACP. In my opinion, 9mm is too light and has too much danger of overpenetration. I think 40S&W is the least accurate and has the most recoil of the big three semi-auto rounds.
If your just looking to buy a house weapon that will stay in the house, go with the revolver. Get a semi-auto only if you plan to go to the range fairly often and practice with it.
Roadrunner said:Hehe, yeah I've always thought one of those would be quite an 'experience' to shoot. Could be fun for a couple of rounds; but then again I'm a little warped that way. I can't wait to get a chance to try out the S&W .500.
lol yes the guy next door has a 'J' frame .357 w/the scandium frame, its not lots of un to shoot with .38 wadcutters, i fired some remington 125gr JHP magnums out of it and its not for small kids let me tell ya, i guess it would be ok for concealed carry w/the .357 but i would hate to practice enough to get good w/it w/the mag loads, give me a 9MM anyday.
he also has a S&W .500 we are hoping to shoot next weekend, he shoots big revolvers a lot (ie hand loaded .45 long colt, .454 casull, 480 ruger) his hamilton bowen ruger bisley w/a SS cylinder/ejector rod housing and really nice blue elsewhere in .45 long colt is awesome, 2.5 lbs trigger, expansion chamber built into bbl, awesome, anyway point being he said the .500 recoils worse than the .454 casull, lots worse, it outta be fun lol. might even be worse than the scandium 'j' frame lol.
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WOW - I am shocked that noone has even MENTIONED the Springfield Xd series. I haev owned a number of weapons and I have been BLOWN away by the Springfield XD. I personally bought the XD sub9mm for CCW, but if I was to buy one simply for HD (pistol was the desire - not scattergun) I would look at the 4 or 5" models. For the price range that you are looking at, you are golden with this choice. They have, in many opinions, "out-Glocked the Glock." (NOW, placing flame suit on!)
I would look at 9mm or 40 (in semi auto) and shoot, shoot, shoot! Look at IDPA to improve your speed/accuracy skills. In life and death matters, being able to hit a dime at 50 yards in 10 seconds is not a great skill. Being able to hit a pie plate at 15 yards in 3 seconds IS!
At least LOOK at the weapon. You should be able to buy yourself a safe, some ammo and the weapon for under your price limit. Also, look at their forums over at xd Talk
good luck on your decision and keep us posted.
David
Oh yeah - shoot, shoot and shoot some more - with a trained professional if you can!
I would look at 9mm or 40 (in semi auto) and shoot, shoot, shoot! Look at IDPA to improve your speed/accuracy skills. In life and death matters, being able to hit a dime at 50 yards in 10 seconds is not a great skill. Being able to hit a pie plate at 15 yards in 3 seconds IS!
At least LOOK at the weapon. You should be able to buy yourself a safe, some ammo and the weapon for under your price limit. Also, look at their forums over at xd Talk
good luck on your decision and keep us posted.
David
Oh yeah - shoot, shoot and shoot some more - with a trained professional if you can!