Recommendation for new set of handtools (Non Generic) please :)

Joined
Sep 29, 2013
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4
Hello Everyone,

I will try not to go off on a rant as much as possible. Simple and short, I am looking for a high quality industry grade
hand tool set. The local hardware shop is about 40 mintues away, and when a non properly heat treated file starts
buckling on a Saturday night, well you get the picture....

What I am looking for is a set of professional grade made in the land of the free files (flat, double cut, single cut, half round, round, hobby....),
an accurate scribe, punches, and clamps. I am going all out on this one and would like to make a purchase of the various
tools one time! No generic China, Brazil..... PLEASE :)

Is it worth going with Swiss pattern vs. American?
 
This must be a very important topic for you to spend on your first post! Welcome to BF Shop Talk.

If you want very good files, there are none better than Grobet, which are Swiss. Very nice files. Secondly, there is Nicholson (USA made). A new file card, a little chalk, and you are in business.
 
While I haven't used the Swiss (Grobet) files, I do use, and love, Simmonds brand files. They're made in Honduras, though. Hardly land of the free, but they are MUCH better than the Nicholson (now made in Mexico and Brazil) and other generic brands. There is Pferd, made in Germany.....I have a few and they are excellent, but pricey, files. There is Iwasaki from Japan, however I have never used them. You get what you pay for.
 
Hello Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for your response! Higgins, may I just say that is highly perceptive!
I was looking at some of these manufactures online, and please bear with the "home depot"
train of thought:

Diamond vs Key: We work with mostly tool, carbon, stainless, cruciable type steels. Hand made, with no grinders at our shop.
Would diamond files give is that much of a benefit? Also, what is the wear rate given extensive use.

Sizes (W x L): A lot of these file are around 6-8 inches long. I am not sure how that will work with some of our large knives, since
we are use using the 12 inch long files.

Would it be possible to get help from you guys on the size, and different files that we will need. I listed some above however, a breakdown
of most commonly used files would be perfect. Chances are, there is no set that will include all the types of hand tools needed.

Thanks for the warm welcome,

Nick from Toronto.
 
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I second Grobet. Or new old stock Nicholson.
I've had success finding N.O.S. Nicholsons by the box on that auction site.
Swiss pattern goes from 00 to 4 or 6, with 00 being very coarse, think bastard cut, and the higher up you go in number designation the finer the file.
 
I do all my knives by hand. No grinders. I do use a bench grinder, and 4x36 to clean up profiles, but I cut bevels with files. I have no need for fine tooth files. Sandpaper covers that. All I look for are 12", preferably 14" double cut bastard files. Or "chipbreaker" files. A 10" Simmonds multi-cut is perfect for finer finish, or working against that plunge line. That's all I use, but I realize others might have quite an assortment of files, and use them on different areas of their knives.
 
Pferd files are mostly amazing, I'd say they rival Grobet, I've used many styles in both and they pretty much trade blows. Most of them are made in Germany as far as I know. Pferd also makes some pretty amazing abrasive discs and flap wheels, some of the best I've personally used (in a welding/fabrication setting though).

I've gotten some insane deals on Pferd files on Amazon, due to their automated pricing. Once I got a 14" beast half-round Pferd, made in Germany, for $2.47 shipped (average price on tracker as around $37). I have prime, so the free shipping really helps too. I've gotten about 8-10 USA, German, Swiss made files on Amazon, for between $2-4. My best catch yet was an 8" Corinox file (specially coated for stainless steel use), they run about $50, got it for just over $4.
 
Diamond files tend to be very fine grained. You won't remove material very fast.

For working with unhardened steel, I would start with the first 2 classes of files below. I'm grouping them in a way that if you find one that's in a group, it should be pretty comparable to the others within that group, so you have some leeway. The ones in group 3 and 4 are more generic for more finishing work.

Group 1: Magicut, Multi-cut (Multi-kut), Chipbreaker:
These files are very aggressive. Made to remove materials fast but leave a pretty clean finish. Though technically single cut files, their design and coarse teeth cut more aggressively than any double cut bastard file. I would use these as the main heavy removal. Nicholson calls theirs Magicut, you'll want to find the ones made in America. The teeth pattern is a bit different than the next two in the group, but they're all designed with the same purpose in mind and the difference in the teeth pattern has more to do with keeping the teeth clear of filings. The best place to find this is eBay but be sure to notice whether or not it's the older American made one or the newer Mexican/Brazil made. If it doesn't say specifically, ask the seller before buying. Grainger's might have the older American made Magicuts as well. Just be sure to avoid the Mexican made ones.

Simonds calls their Multi-kut (some spell it Multi-cut). It's harder to find the American made Simonds Multi-kut, and Samraistuart says the Honduras one is good and they're easy to find on eBay or other google searches.

Pferd makes a design exactly like the Simonds Multi-kut, and calls it the Chipbreaker. I have a couple of them. Pferd is made in Germany and so far I find their files very good. I can actually get my hands on the 12" Pferd Chipbreaker very easily for less than $5 at a welding shop about an hour away from me. So if you want I can grab one for you at cost and shipping. Just PM me if you need me to do that.


Group 2: Long angle lathe file

This is really good for draw filing because of the cuts in the file are angled at 45 instead of 30. This means that when you turn the file to do draw filing, the angle remains at 45, while other files that angle becomes 120 (or 60 depending on how you look at it). The 120 degree is too close to parallel with your draw filing stroke, so you end up not removing material as efficiently and you're at higher risk of having the file cut grooves into the material.

As far as brand, I've only been able to come across Nicholson brand. Again, get only the older American made ones. Check eBay. Also check your local Grainger's. Ironically Grainger's has been trying to clear out the American made files and if you can find them there they're cheaper than the lesser quality Mexican made Nicholsons.


Group 3: Flat mill files


The ones in group 1 takes care of heavy removal, the mill file takes care of finer removal. Any brand as long as it's good condition old stock American made, or if new then Swiss, German, Swedish made.


Group 4: Half rounds, rounds

Depending on your needs for curved shapes. As with group 3, brand won't matter as much as country it's made in.
 
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What a great source of information. I really like the sense of community here. You will be seeing more of me.
From everything that was said here, I devised a small list for startes, I will keep appending on it as we go
I hope I am not violating any forum rules by posting links, if so, I can take them down fast:

Flat:

Nicholson Magicut: http://www.industrialhardware.com/07941-037103079411-sp.html
Nicholson Second Cut: http://www.industrialhardware.com/03797-037103037978-sp.html
Nicholson Smooth: http://www.industrialhardware.com/03830-037103038302-sp.html

Long Angle Lathe

Course: http://www.industrialhardware.com/07688-037103076885-sp.html
Fine: http://www.industrialhardware.com/07842-037103078421-sp.html


Mill

Bastard: http://www.industrialhardware.com/21842-037103218421-sp.html
Second: http://www.industrialhardware.com/08768-037103087683-sp.html
Smooth: http://www.industrialhardware.com/08799-037103087997-sp.html

Nicholson Set: http://www.industrialhardware.com/22030n-037103218087-up.html
File Card: http://www.industrialhardware.com/21467-037103214676-up.html

The Nicholson half and round all seem to be made in BR. Will probably go with another
manufacture for those. Other than that, the list above is all US made. Anyone have
any experience with these guys? A little on the expensive side but, we get what
we pay for....
 
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