Recommendation: KaBar Heavy Bowie vs ZK War Sword vs ZK 5 Pestilence ?

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ocnLogan

Joined
Jul 31, 2011
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In other words, I might be looking for a poor mans large camp knife. And for what its worth, I almost entirely car camp (jeep technically), so I'm not super worried about weight, but more about doing things easily and safely.

The current camping setup:

-Gerber multitool (400 compact sport)
-Mora Carbon Clipper
-Becker BK2
-Generic 14in 1 1/4lb hatchet

What I'm thinking of changing to:

-Gerber multitool (400 compact sport)
-Mora Carbon Clipper
-Becker BK2
-Largeish camp knife
-Silky saw

The reason that I am looking for a largeish camp knife is because I went camping the other day with my sweet BK2, and realized it could use a big brother. The BK2 does pretty much everything you could ever want to use a knife for while camping without breaking a sweat. The only place I found it wanting, was when I was wanting to baton a piece of wood that was thicker than BK2's blade was long. If I leave the hatchet at home, and bring a saw, it means I don't have to worry about chopping the wood, but more about batoning the pieces that are too large for the BK2, and also just for general camping fun (I don't camp in places with enough undergrowth to worry about need it as a machete or anything like that. Sometimes, I just want me a nice large knife).

That leaves me looking for a knife that is good and sturdy, and pretty cheap. The KaBar Heavy Bowie is the first one I thought about (The BK9 is a bit out of my price range, but I think its sweet), but the handle is a bit of a turn off, because I hear it can be easily damaged by batoning if you hit the handle. But I like the blade thickness, and generally the blade shape (I wish most blades were drop points, but I digress). After thinking about the handles a bit, I started to think more about a few knives from the ZK line. I like how they have full tangs with removable grips(less damage from a baton), I like their sheaths, and their price. However, I have a hard time with the blade shapes... I don't really like any of them to be honest. I would lean more towards the War Sword if I had to choose right now, but the Pestilence has a nice flat tip for batoning.

Does anyone have any experience with all of these? Does anyone have experience with any of these? I've been looking around for good reviews of these things, but I can't really seem to find any, so if you know of one, then please, let me know. And any thoughts on which one would be better for my intended uses, once again, let me know.

THANKS!
 
Only have the War Sword. The spine is thick and works very well for batoning. The slight drop point really is thick - it tapers abruptly so it actually is perfect (imo) for batoning. Flat or very light hollow grind makes for some fast work.

The balance is very good. I guess this is subjective, but its speed makes for some great flick chops. Cutting with it (against the grain) versus a tree was a bit more jarring - a lot of force traveled down the tang into my hand. In fact, it loosened one of the slabs - I had to go back in at the end and re-tighten the fit.

I don't have a problem with the blade shape in general (reminds me of an improved TOPS armageddon) but the grips are a bit harsh on my hands...and my hands are not soft by any means.
 
Thanks for the comments about the war sword, thats very helpful. And if I may, can I ask you a few more about it?

One of the things that I don't like about most larger camp-ish knives is that they are usually bowies, which generally seems to mean they have a swedge. Since I don't plan on doing any impaling of things, I usually prefer a flat top edge on my knives. I know the Heavy Bowie has a swedge, but does the War sword? I don't think it does, but its hard to tell from the photos that I've seen of it. Can you shed some light on that for me? Also, you mentioned that it is a full flat grind? I guess I just think of the blade shapes as funny, mostly because I don't usually like recurves, but neither of those two knives are very crazy, so I could live with it. Oh, and does the recurve make it hard to baton with at all?

Also, I see the War Sword and the pestilence as almost the same knife, other than blade shape. The War Swords blade shape makes sense to me, but the Pestilence seems a bit harder to figure out what its ideal use is.

Thanks again for the help. Anyone else have input here?
 
Honestly, you can't go wrong with the Cutlass Machete. Damn that thing is a wrecking ball with a handle. I chopped some stuff the other day with mine, a Rose of Sharon tree that has been dead for a season, and man, does that thing love to knock wood around.

Of the 3 you listed, you won't find a better chopper than the Pestilence. The weight, heft, and blade shape makes this thing a BEAST. Its no Cutlass Machete for sure, but it will serve your needs well.

Moose
 
I've considered the Cutlass Machete before, but I'd heard that it was hard to baton, because of the big swell at the end of the blade and kind of tossed it out because of that. Does that make it harder at all?

Also, in big knife duties, how would it compare? I mean, its not going to be a primary chopper, but rather baton-er, with fun chopping and stuff like that on the side.
 
ocnLogan said:
I've considered the Cutlass Machete before, but I'd heard that it was hard to baton, because of the big swell at the end of the blade and kind of tossed it out because of that. Does that make it harder at all?

Also, in big knife duties, how would it compare? I mean, its not going to be a primary chopper, but rather baton-er, with fun chopping and stuff like that on the side.
Click to expand...

Never had a problem smashing through wood as a baton knife. I'm using a Condor Kamunga as a wood stove knife (last season and this season) and it hurts the hand, the Cutlass, not so much. Plus, its priced to move:D.

Either one will serve you fine, me thinks.

Moose
 
First off, if I had more money than sense I'd pick up a heavy bowie just because they're beautifully designed. Don't seem like a particularly good design for a large camp knife, but man are they tasty.

It's got the same handle as the Warthog and I beat on my Warthog (note: not 'beat' on my 'Warthog') recently... I really don't think the handle is designed for hammering the knife straight into wood like a nail. Anything else though and it'd probably be fine. This is why the Becker's exposed pommels are so nice. In fact, I'm debating removing my Warthog handle and modifying it to expose the pommel.

The kraton is a soft material so it's going to show damage easier than the JAB or Becker handles... no way around this. Feels nice, so nice though. I'm not even considering replacing my Warthog handle with something else... just redoing the kraton a bit.
 
Backing up, though... if you're splitting wood that is thicker than a BK2 blade, then I would think you're out of knife territory and into AxeLand anyway. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, & don't bring a knife to a bonfire :)
 
I know what you mean, I would love to have a big knife as the BK2 is my largest so I don't really have a chopper. the condor kumunga isn't to expensive.
 
Thanks for the help again guys. I seem to always be harrassing you guys with something...

Anyway, the part of the heavy bowie that I was thinking of being an issue with batoning was the part of the handle that was right next to the blade. Meaning, if you ever had to whack the other side of the knife, it might split the grip. Not sure if thats an issue, its just what I've read about it. I really have no intention to pound this into a tree or stump like a nail, so I'm not worried about the pommel area.

Also, we're not talking bonfire here, its just that where I was camping this last weekend, most of the wood available for burning was downed trees, and blown down branches. Some of them were pretty large, and thats all that there really was around to burn. Also, I like batoning over a hatchet (so far, though I'll admit that I have little experience), because there isn't an edge flying around. I often time camp around children (nephews, neighbors kids, etc), and removing variables like that with something that is not sharp (meaning, you're swinging the baton instead of an ax) seems like a good idea though (note, this is not me saying that I just start swinging an edge like that just anywhere, but some of those little buggers will sneak up on you :)).

Maybe I just heard how the BK2 will baton through anything, and without any prior experience, I just went ahead and tried it out on stuff. Maybe I need better technique (or sense ?).

And moose... I must be looking the wrong places, because everywhere I've been looking, the ZK series are a bit cheaper than the cutlass, and much cheaper than the Heavy bowie, which seems to have jumped up in price recently.
 
No swedge on the War. I expected it to have one when it came in the mail...but nope :P...guess it'll survive quite a bit of prying. When batoning, it can sometimes seem like it might wedge slightly at the top of the spine, but it's not noticeable since the blade isn't too wide. It splits wood much faster than my esee 5 just because of it's length (and it's a bit thinner).
 
oh, I get what you're saying about the batoning the kraton now. That's a really good point and something I hadn't thought about. Seems like a very real risk... wonder if KA-BAR has had to replace kraton-handled knives for this reason.

If I feel brave enough, maybe I'll take my Warthog out to the stump and smash it a few times to see what happens.
 
ocnLogan said:
And moose... I must be looking the wrong places, because everywhere I've been looking, the ZK series are a bit cheaper than the cutlass, and much cheaper than the Heavy bowie, which seems to have jumped up in price recently.[/QUOTE

I see the Cutlass for $47.33 and the Pestilence/War for $49.52. That's at my favorite spot, and the best place to find Kabars on the net. Tomars.

Moose
Click to expand...
 
I've heard good things about tomars, just never ordered from them. Because I'm not sure what the rules are around here are for "Dealwatching" (if thats even the name, but just saw a thread mentioning it a few minutes ago), I'll just say that I usually order from a different place where I get free 2 day shipping, and the price of the War/Pestilence is about $5 ish dollars cheaper than tomars.

WilliamP - Thanks for the help about the swedge, from the photos it looks a bit suspicious, so thanks for clearing that up.

hughewil- Thanks for the tip about the Condor. I like the shape of the blade... but the handle looks like it might have a similar problem to the Heavy Bowie with the handle. I also don't know much about condor, other than knowing they make a BK2-ish blade called the rodan, and a big machete thing called a golok.

Also, i've heard good things about the ZK line's sheaths, and if I have read up on that well enough, it seems like they come with a small fixed blade as well.
 
ocnLogan said:
Anyway, the part of the heavy bowie that I was thinking of being an issue with batoning was the part of the handle that was right next to the blade. Meaning, if you ever had to whack the other side of the knife, it might split the grip. Not sure if thats an issue, its just what I've read about it.
Click to expand...

I just took my newish Warthog out, laid the handle across a square chunk of wood, and slammed it ten times with a 3 inch palo verde baton. Pics forthcoming, but I don't think it did a durn thing to the handle as far as I can tell. Ol' Rattly's handle seems as sound now as before :).

Dunno if the handle/tang on the Bowie is drastically different than the Warthog, but as far as the Warthog's handle I wouldn't worry about this.
 
BRL- Thanks for doing that, I really appreciate it. Sounds like I likely have nothing to worry about with the handle then, in terms of "normal use" anyway.

Also, I remember seeing mooses bug giveaway thread, and first discovering the Cutlass machete and the Heavy Bowie. I looked up the prices, and at the time, they were between $10-15 less than they are right now, so I decided to wait and join later, because these ones were "cheap enough to pick up myself later"... I'm kicking myself about that now...

And I take it that the recurved blades are nothing to worry about in terms of batoning then?
 
Photos.

Handle before:
1-3.jpg

2-3.jpg


Batonage. I was really starting to regret this, in case I messed up this cool knife :)
3-3.jpg


The guillotine setup.
4-3.jpg


After: no noticeable damage.
5-3.jpg

6-3.jpg


Wipe off and it looked good as new.
7-3.jpg


Inside the handle: no visible damage.
IMG_20110815_195250.jpg


As your post got my wondering about this, it was a good test to run. Feeling better about the handle after this; I was really hammering it!
 
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