Recommendations: Reprofiling Stones

[duxbellorum]

What good offerings are there in the 100-250 grit range that cut fastest and leave the best (least gouged) grind?

The internet says good things about Imanishi 220 and about the shapton pro 120 and 220 stones.

What do you Use and what works well?

 

[Ang88]

that's good stuff, works very well

 

[Sadden]

120 pro is soft. Use little pressure and let the stone do the work or you will wear it away quickly. It is a fast stone though.

If you really need to move some metal theres the 24 , 60 and 120 grit Nubatama stones. They are hard silicone carbide stones that work really well.

Besides that the 140Atoma/150NUbatama is still the best combo going.

 

[Jason B.]

The Nubatama 24 and 60 grit stones should never be used to grind the edge of a blade, I'm also pretty sure they are aluminum oxide, the abrasive does not break down in use. In my experience they are actually slower than stones like the Nubatama Bamboo 150 which is probably the best quality coarse waterstone on the market (Next to the Shaptons).


I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THE IMANISHI 220 FOR STANDARD BEVEL SETTING!!!!!!

The imanishi 220 is a stone that is best used on traditional single bevel japanese blades. You can and WILL damage knives using this stone for anything else.

A really awesome stone that will set bevels quickly is the Atoma 140 or 400, I've used my fair share of coarse stones and not much can top the Atoma at setting bevels. IMO, it's a much better practice to use a diamond plate like the 400 then progress to a quality 1000 grit stone. This ensures the bevel is flat which is very important at the starting stages.

 

[bgentry]

I've had very good results using the DMT XXC plate, which is roughly 120 grit, but it cuts much deeper and faster than you'd expect, since it's a diamond plate. It's the fastest thing I've ever used by hand. Maybe even faster than a file. Maybe.

I also have the Nubatama Bamboo 150. For regular type steels, it cuts very quickly and leaves behind a finish that's surprisingly smooth given how fast it cuts. On harder steels and/or ones with more carbides, it slows way down. I did a big Benchmade in D2 that took forever on that stone, but it came out really well. I'm told that the combo of the DMT XXC followed by the Nubatama 150 is a great way to cut fast and then smooth the grind pattern out so you can move on to a finer stone like a 1000 grit waterstone. Very similar to Jason's suggestion of the Atoma 140 followed by the Nubatama 150.

Jason I'm REALLY surprised to hear you say the 24 and 60 grit Nubatamas don't cut fast. I think the Nubatama 150 is slow compared to the DMT XXC. You think the 24 and 60 grit are slower than that?? That's weird.

Brian.

 

[Jason B.]

I think the 24 grit would be ideal to lap other coarse stones because below about 300 grit you really start to cause major damage to diamond plates. I have not yet owned the 24 but I had the 60 grit and used it long enough to know how it works.

The 60 grit came with a smooth lapped top that would hardly cut into steel, after a lapping with other coarse stones the surface became coarser but the binder was so tough it did not allow the abrasive to release and replenish itself. You also had to about stand on the blade for any abrasive release to happen.

The only things it ever really worked on was a old hatchet and a large Japanese hatchet, seemed as if you needed thick heavy steel or the stone was about useless. On these large blades the stone released abrasive quickly but produced some nasty deep scratches that about ruined the shinogi line of the japanese hatchet and with the rapid dishing made an overly round bevel on the American style hatchet. I spent almost an hour on the japanese hatchet with a 120 Bamboo stone (crazy fast stone, wears crazy fast too) hardly getting all the scratches out and the other hatchet I took to the belt sander because the 60 did more damage than good.

So yes, the 60 grit was slower than my 150, 180, 220 and several other coarse stones for two reasons. First, if it is any faster with a given blade all that saved time will be lost in removing the scratches it produces. Second, it's binder was too hard, more like the type of binder used with lapping stones, this in itself will make a stone slower.

 

[duxbellorum]

Can you clarify what you mean by "bevel setting"?

Primary bevels seem quick to adjust because it's not much metal to remove, but thinning or setting secondary bevels involves a lot more removal. I am looking for a stone which can make the thinning and secondary bevel setting process much faster.

The decision seems to be between the iminashi 220 nor the nabutama 150. What is different about the Iminashi when it comes to thinning?

 

[Jason B.]

Bevel setting- the act of creating a bevel, be it creating one where a bevel does not exist or grinding away a factory edge. This is typically the role of a coarse stone.

The imanishi stone wears quickly and will wash away bevel shoulders of normal V bevels due to the large amounts of sand-like mud that quickly develops. These stones are for large flat bevels only and will damage other types of cutlery.

What type, steel, brand of knives are you sharpening?

 

[duxbellorum]

Thankyou very much for the advice and commentary!

My main uses for this stone will be thinning the blades of chef's knives of various steels (some stainless, some aogane). I also like to give polished and thinned Tojiro Shirogane #1 gyutos to my friends to introduce them to japanese cuttlery. I'm currently using a 300 grit knockoff of a bamboo stone to do this and it takes forever.



I also occasionally polish chinese knockoff katanas made of various high carbon steels (1060 or O2). This is painful on a soft stone because there is SO much grinding one must lap frequently to maintain a usable surface.

The review on CKTG indicates that the Nubatama 150 is a harder stone which does not build up nearly as much mud as the Iminashi. If this is correct, how does it compare in terms of cutting speed?