Recon 1 rattling and loose pin

I

ivanhoe

Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
108
Hi everyone,

All of a sudden, my gen 2 Recon 1 (AUS 8 and triad lock) started rattling.
This happens in any position - when the knife is closed, opened and half-opened.

The knife is completely new, and so far I've just been breaking it in. No use whatsoever.
Lockup is 100% solid in every direction and everything works properly.

I found a similar thread which suggested that internal stop pin (that keeps the blade from hitting the lock / backspacer when closed) can be loose and rattle.
When I removed the scale, another pin just popped out. I pointed it out here:

rh9HNSd.jpg


(photo is from here)

That pin is simply shorter and I don't really understand the purpose.

Questions:

1. Should I just send this knife back to the store where I got it from?
2. Is there any quick-fix I can do on my own?
3. Can this affect performance, specifically safety of the lock?

Thanks!
 
Hi Ivanhoe,
I had the same problem. The little pin that fell out did the same thing when I opened up mine, but I believe that the pin is supposed to be loose. My XL Tanto Rec 1 was rattling when it was closed. I sent it back to CS and they graciously replaced it. Although the replacement knife did not rattle when I first got it, after several one hand openings during the weekend the rattle started up again. I fixed mine by putting a little locktite on both ends of the Triad lock pin where it inserts into the scales and the rattle went away. I also put LT on the main pivot screw in order to stop it from coming loose with use. She is very tight now, no issues.
Hope this solves your problem,
Alan
 
Wow, thanks a lot for quick response, Yipchoy!

I'll have another look and check all other pins.
If this is something small that I can fix, and there are no safety concerns, I wouldn't send it back to the store / CS.

Would it be safe to just take that small loose pin out in that case?
 
Hi Ivanhoe,
I wouldn't take it out, but I would either superglue it in or better yet Locktite it in. It does perform a function, since I am not an engineer, I couldn't tell you what that function would be.
All the best,
Alan
 
I recently took apart my Ultimate Hunter for the first time, and I had a very similar experience. I didn't notice the pin at first, but when I went to reassemble the knife I saw it sitting in my lap. I found the only empty hole that it could have come from, and put it back in. Before reassembling the knife again I looked at it for a few minutes, and I wasn't able to figure out what the pin did. It didn't fit particularly tightly in its hole, and it didn't have a place for it drilled in the g10 handles or anything like that. This is pure speculation on my part, but I began to wonder if maybe it's intended to be a way to determine if the knife had been taken apart. I know a lot of knife companies claim that they can tell if someone has taken their knife apart, and I've always wondered how they did that. I've taken apart a bunch of knives, and I've never seen any obvious ways, with the exception of maybe loctite, that the company would be able to tell I had disassembled it. I figured that if Cold Steel had a knife sent in for warranty work and they saw it didn't have this small pin, which I found to be easy to overlook and even misplace, they would know that it had been disassembled. Again, that is all speculation on my part. For all I know that pin is actually the hidden secret ingredient that makes the triad lock so damn good. If anyone knows, I would love to hear what its actual purpose is.
 
yipchoy said:
Hi Ivanhoe,
I wouldn't take it out, but I would either superglue it in or better yet Locktite it in. It does perform a function, since I am not an engineer, I couldn't tell you what that function would be.
All the best,
Alan
Click to expand...

Thanks again, Alan!

instructed2 said:
I recently took apart my Ultimate Hunter for the first time, and I had a very similar experience. I didn't notice the pin at first, but when I went to reassemble the knife I saw it sitting in my lap. I found the only empty hole that it could have come from, and put it back in. Before reassembling the knife again I looked at it for a few minutes, and I wasn't able to figure out what the pin did. It didn't fit particularly tightly in its hole, and it didn't have a place for it drilled in the g10 handles or anything like that. This is pure speculation on my part, but I began to wonder if maybe it's intended to be a way to determine if the knife had been taken apart. I know a lot of knife companies claim that they can tell if someone has taken their knife apart, and I've always wondered how they did that. I've taken apart a bunch of knives, and I've never seen any obvious ways, with the exception of maybe loctite, that the company would be able to tell I had disassembled it. I figured that if Cold Steel had a knife sent in for warranty work and they saw it didn't have this small pin, which I found to be easy to overlook and even misplace, they would know that it had been disassembled. Again, that is all speculation on my part. For all I know that pin is actually the hidden secret ingredient that makes the triad lock so damn good. If anyone knows, I would love to hear what its actual purpose is.
Click to expand...

That could make sense honestly; the only thing I don't get is why does it rattle then? I mean it attracts attention - if they wanted it to be a clue on whether or not the knife has been disassembled, it should be silent as well. Just my thoughts.
 
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That pin is just one more thing to lock in the back spacer I believe. Anyway, if it rattles when open, or even halfway open, it is the internal stop pin. If it rattles when closed, it is the Triad pin.
 
Yes, the pin is there to offer support for the backspacer. See the long, relatively thin 'tongue' under the slot for the spring in the backspacer? The spring exerts pressure downward on this piece. And even though the backspacer is made from aluminum, it doesn't hurt to have the pin there, because the pin supports and transfers the forces into the G10 handle slabs. :thumbup:
 
My code 4 lock bar pin rattles. The Pin the lock bar pivots on rattles when the knife is open sometimes. It brand new but ill deal with it.
 
My pin didn't rattle, but when I took the knife apart for cleaning I lost it. Had a brad (very small nail) of the same diameter so I made a new pin. Still no rattle. The pin is there to support the backspacer when the spring is apply pressure on it so it really does need to be there. If the rattling is bugging you, you could do what I did and just make one a hair longer. Just experiment a little and you should be able to eliminate the rattling.
Bob
 
Mine rattled when it was closed, but stopped when I opened it. It bothered me until I took it apart and realized that all the important stuff was still solid. I never did find out what was causing the sound - I'll have to go back and check that pin.
 
All my Recons do this, i have a couple. Here's how i solve it:

I cut i minuscule piece of a plastic bag (the one the knife comes packed in), just a tiny tiny sliver.
Then i press that tiny sliver into the holes on both sides of the scales (so that's one sliver each).
I then compress it with a wooden toothpick, firmly into the hole.

This creates a soft padding on both sides and stops the pins from ratteling.
You have to make sure to use just enough plastic, to keep both sides even.

Works great for me.
 
Garreth said:
All my Recons do this, i have a couple. Here's how i solve it:

I cut i minuscule piece of a plastic bag (the one the knife comes packed in), just a tiny tiny sliver.
Then i press that tiny sliver into the holes on both sides of the scales (so that's one sliver each).
I then compress it with a wooden toothpick, firmly into the hole.

This creates a soft padding on both sides and stops the pins from ratteling.
You have to make sure to use just enough plastic, to keep both sides even.

Works great for me.
Click to expand...

The first guy who figured out what was causing the rattling a couple years back or so at CS's forum did something similar. That seems to be the best way to go if it bothers you. I have a few Tri-Ad knives that rattle and a few that don't, but I don't sweat it. It's very much like the rattling torsion bars in my Kershaw folders; like Ccc said, I know what it is and that it's not something broken inside, so it doesn't bug me. :thumbup:
 
G. Scott H. said:
The first guy who figured out what was causing the rattling a couple years back or so at CS's forum did something similar. That seems to be the best way to go if it bothers you. I have a few Tri-Ad knives that rattle and a few that don't, but I don't sweat it. It's very much like the rattling torsion bars in my Kershaw folders; like Ccc said, I know what it is and that it's not something broken inside, so it doesn't bug me. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Or put a drop of thick grease inside the small pin hole. did that for all my CS. i used Superlube.
 
I found that I experience this in my Talwar, but not any of my other Tri-Ad lock folders.

I don't see how it would affect performance or why the pin even exists in the first place. I don't feel that safety or performance is compromised, and will continue to carry my knife with gusto. I'll be sure to report any failures here, though I don't expect any, as I've had this knife since it came out and it's been nothing but a reliable friend to me.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
I found that I experience this in my Talwar, but not any of my other Tri-Ad lock folders.

I don't see how it would affect performance or why the pin even exists in the first place. I don't feel that safety or performance is compromised, and will continue to carry my knife with gusto. I'll be sure to report any failures here, though I don't expect any, as I've had this knife since it came out and it's been nothing but a reliable friend to me.
Click to expand...

The pin is there as a failsafe. The aluminum backspacer that holds the spring may not have deformed enough to press on the pin yet, but with use it will creep and the pin is there to make sure that it wont deform too much and cause the spring to lose pressure.
 
hkyew said:
The pin is there as a failsafe. The aluminum backspacer that holds the spring may not have deformed enough to press on the pin yet, but with use it will creep and the pin is there to make sure that it wont deform too much and cause the spring to lose pressure.
Click to expand...

Thank you. :thumbup:

I'm sure Cold Steel will take care of it, should I have any problems. I don't abuse my knives or tend to use them too hard, so I think I should be fine.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
Thank you. :thumbup:

I'm sure Cold Steel will take care of it, should I have any problems. I don't abuse my knives or tend to use them too hard, so I think I should be fine.
Click to expand...

The thing is, if u know backlock mechanism, you will understand that that part of the backspacer only takes more load when the spring is flexed, i.e. when opening/closing the knife. So no, it would more likely fail from repeated opening and closing, doesn't matter if you hard use it or not.
So the pin is essential. That part of the backspacer for lockback knife are often supported, look at Spyderco Endura in the picture as an example, the "pin" was molded on the FRN backspacer.
Not all failures are associated to "hard uses".
 
yipchoy said:
Hi Ivanhoe,
I had the same problem. The little pin that fell out did the same thing when I opened up mine, but I believe that the pin is supposed to be loose. My XL Tanto Rec 1 was rattling when it was closed. I sent it back to CS and they graciously replaced it. Although the replacement knife did not rattle when I first got it, after several one hand openings during the weekend the rattle started up again. I fixed mine by putting a little locktite on both ends of the Triad lock pin where it inserts into the scales and the rattle went away. I also put LT on the main pivot screw in order to stop it from coming loose with use. She is very tight now, no issues.
Hope this solves your problem,
Alan
Click to expand...

My Recon XL is doing this. So glad you posted your fix. What type of LockTite did you use? Medium? Heavy Duty?
 
You can also simply coat the pins with grease prior to reinserting them.

Totally eliminates rattle, yet isn't permanent.
 
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