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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Recycling
- Thread starter jake pogg
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 3,898
Agent_H
...Good model name,that!
That was a funny project...A lovely piece of AISI 1095 for the edge...faultlessly welded in and even Blended!(for once...)...https://imgur.com/a/Oii8r0F
And all as a gift for an 11-year old...(some people's kids...why can't he play video games like all normal children?!
It'll get a hickory handle,and i'll even heat-treat it,too,but sharpening i'll leave to his father,with all the potential karma...
...Good model name,that!That was a funny project...A lovely piece of AISI 1095 for the edge...faultlessly welded in and even Blended!(for once...)...https://imgur.com/a/Oii8r0F
And all as a gift for an 11-year old...(some people's kids...why can't he play video games like all normal children?!
It'll get a hickory handle,and i'll even heat-treat it,too,but sharpening i'll leave to his father,with all the potential karma
...The Exercise in Futility goes on...This pile of crapulous-looking iron is trying to organise itself into an axe...https://imgur.com/a/a8Sczdx
A piece of that 1/2" plate(how i hope it's not AR grade...
...forged and cleft for welding an edge in.https://imgur.com/a/iK7Cyd9
Here it is with it's prospective future edge.That piece of a broken axe in the first photo was too awful even for this establishment,so a leaf-spring section it shall be...(depressing...all that Cr in the alloy makes welding no fun.......https://imgur.com/a/lvyJeYF
But AR,Chrome,and what have you,it welded...(the dark wiggly pieces are remnants of bailing wire that held this Object for the first welding heat...now to be forever a part of this lovely laminate as well...https://imgur.com/a/iPZXH66
The corresponding eye/socket part cut and forged and bent to shape from 1/4"-ish plate...https://imgur.com/a/ip2kxsZ
And now the lovely whole is assembled loosely on the drift...https://imgur.com/a/LkUVCHy
It'll have to wait till tomorrow,i've now been at it for over 7 hourswent through my regulation drum of charcoal,and am frankly exhausted....
One can (kinda/sorta)see from these photos that it's to be a kirves-like object...Going through all these insane motions really helps me understand the many hows and whys that i can't fathom any other way....(is that a good excuse?...at least somewhat?...)
A piece of that 1/2" plate(how i hope it's not AR grade...
...forged and cleft for welding an edge in.https://imgur.com/a/iK7Cyd9Here it is with it's prospective future edge.That piece of a broken axe in the first photo was too awful even for this establishment,so a leaf-spring section it shall be...(depressing...all that Cr in the alloy makes welding no fun...
....https://imgur.com/a/lvyJeYFBut AR,Chrome,and what have you,it welded...(the dark wiggly pieces are remnants of bailing wire that held this Object for the first welding heat...now to be forever a part of this lovely laminate as well
...https://imgur.com/a/iPZXH66The corresponding eye/socket part cut and forged and bent to shape from 1/4"-ish plate...https://imgur.com/a/ip2kxsZ
And now the lovely whole is assembled loosely on the drift...https://imgur.com/a/LkUVCHy
It'll have to wait till tomorrow,i've now been at it for over 7 hourswent through my regulation drum of charcoal,and am frankly exhausted....
One can (kinda/sorta)see from these photos that it's to be a kirves-like object...Going through all these insane motions really helps me understand the many hows and whys that i can't fathom any other way....(is that a good excuse?...at least somewhat?...)
Square_peg
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2012
- Messages
- 13,823
Coming together very well, Jake!
Square_peg,thank you,sir.
Well,i've both good and bad news.The good news is that it was a (nearly)total failure!...(it's a good thing as the pain and humiliation and other such niceties make the lesson Register).
The bad news is that as often is with weld failures i'll never know the reason,so the lesson is kinda incomplete...
Right off before even starting i noticed that the future composite is too long in the mid-section.Knowing that with welding it will only increase i Should've stopped and reforged the blade shorter,more compact.
So after the first couple welding heats it of course became starkly obvious:https://imgur.com/a/HdQz4wL
But,we're not innit for looks this is Education in welding,and welds look fine.More than that they Feel fine(you Know when you got a weld,right through the hammer handle,it feels Solid).
https://imgur.com/a/7QQxZpU
Ok,cool.So now we must steepen the learning curve.
Many sockets of this sort are forged octagonal.Why?...Well,i didn't do my apprenticeship nor journeyed for a stated number of years,didn't find that perfect shop where the Master's daughter(who was of course gorgeous and kind)would marry me,and so did not inherit neither the shop,nor the tools,not even any basic idea of how and why things were done...(boo-hoo...
So there's one way to find out - it's to break those fragile fresh weld-seams trying something daft...And that's of course what i do.
The forging feels great,i'm drifting it very confidently,so attempt to forge it into octagon on the drift,and open some seams,and contaminate them hopelessly.
https://imgur.com/a/sLwLzNi
Now i can just pitch the whole thing,but first-forensics,to learn all we can.I cut and grind into all the suspect places,finding that i only screwed up the extending part,most other seams are plenty good.So i decide to risk further time and fuel to at least practice the welding on of that added poll-mass.
https://imgur.com/a/6TinYRF
That last was the photo of the grinding,then i had company in the forge and neglected my picture-taking.However the poll welded on fine,and at least for now i'm even kinda liking the resulting rough forging...
https://imgur.com/a/Ac1FSqx
I Did learn a great deal,all joking aside it's an important and productive process.Once my brain recuperates a bit i'll even understand a bit more of what happened,(and if i'm super lucky even a little of why,maybe...)
Well,i've both good and bad news.The good news is that it was a (nearly)total failure!
...(it's a good thing as the pain and humiliation and other such niceties make the lesson Register).The bad news is that as often is with weld failures i'll never know the reason,so the lesson is kinda incomplete...
Right off before even starting i noticed that the future composite is too long in the mid-section.Knowing that with welding it will only increase i Should've stopped and reforged the blade shorter,more compact.
So after the first couple welding heats it of course became starkly obvious:https://imgur.com/a/HdQz4wL
But,we're not innit for looks this is Education in welding,and welds look fine.More than that they Feel fine(you Know when you got a weld,right through the hammer handle,it feels Solid).
https://imgur.com/a/7QQxZpU
Ok,cool.So now we must steepen the learning curve.
Many sockets of this sort are forged octagonal.Why?...Well,i didn't do my apprenticeship nor journeyed for a stated number of years,didn't find that perfect shop where the Master's daughter(who was of course gorgeous and kind)would marry me,and so did not inherit neither the shop,nor the tools,not even any basic idea of how and why things were done...(boo-hoo...
So there's one way to find out - it's to break those fragile fresh weld-seams trying something daft...And that's of course what i do.
The forging feels great,i'm drifting it very confidently,so attempt to forge it into octagon on the drift,and open some seams,and contaminate them hopelessly.
https://imgur.com/a/sLwLzNi
Now i can just pitch the whole thing,but first-forensics,to learn all we can.I cut and grind into all the suspect places,finding that i only screwed up the extending part,most other seams are plenty good.So i decide to risk further time and fuel to at least practice the welding on of that added poll-mass.
https://imgur.com/a/6TinYRF
That last was the photo of the grinding,then i had company in the forge and neglected my picture-taking.However the poll welded on fine,and at least for now i'm even kinda liking the resulting rough forging...
https://imgur.com/a/Ac1FSqx
I Did learn a great deal,all joking aside it's an important and productive process.Once my brain recuperates a bit i'll even understand a bit more of what happened,(and if i'm super lucky even a little of why,maybe...)
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 3,898
Jake's post:
jake pogg, post: 18537343, member: 442153"]Square_peg,thank you,sir.
Well,i've both good and bad news.The good news is that it was a (nearly)total failure!...(it's a good thing as the pain and humiliation and other such niceties make the lesson Register).
The bad news is that as often is with weld failures i'll never know the reason,so the lesson is kinda incomplete...
Right off before even starting i noticed that the future composite is too long in the mid-section.Knowing that with welding it will only increase i Should've stopped and reforged the blade shorter,more compact.
So after the first couple welding heats it of course became starkly obvious:
But,we're not innit for looks this is Education in welding,and welds look fine.More than that they Feel fine(you Know when you got a weld,right through the hammer handle,it feels Solid).
Ok,cool.So now we must steepen the learning curve.
Many sockets of this sort are forged octagonal.Why?...Well,i didn't do my apprenticeship nor journeyed for a stated number of years,didn't find that perfect shop where the Master's daughter(who was of course gorgeous and kind)would marry me,and so did not inherit neither the shop,nor the tools,not even any basic idea of how and why things were done...(boo-hoo...
So there's one way to find out - it's to break those fragile fresh weld-seams trying something daft...And that's of course what i do.
The forging feels great,i'm drifting it very confidently,so attempt to forge it into octagon on the drift,and open some seams,and contaminate them hopelessly.
Now i can just pitch the whole thing,but first-forensics,to learn all we can.I cut and grind into all the suspect places,finding that i only screwed up the extending part,most other seams are plenty good.So i decide to risk further time and fuel to at least practice the welding on of that added poll-mass.
That last was the photo of the grinding,then i had company in the forge and neglected my picture-taking.However the poll welded on fine,and at least for now i'm even kinda liking the resulting rough forging...
I Did learn a great deal,all joking aside it's an important and productive process.Once my brain recuperates a bit i'll even understand a bit more of what happened,(and if i'm super lucky even a little of why,maybe...)
*Just wanted to read his travails with the pictures.
jake pogg, post: 18537343, member: 442153"]Square_peg,thank you,sir.
Well,i've both good and bad news.The good news is that it was a (nearly)total failure!
...(it's a good thing as the pain and humiliation and other such niceties make the lesson Register).The bad news is that as often is with weld failures i'll never know the reason,so the lesson is kinda incomplete...
Right off before even starting i noticed that the future composite is too long in the mid-section.Knowing that with welding it will only increase i Should've stopped and reforged the blade shorter,more compact.
So after the first couple welding heats it of course became starkly obvious:
But,we're not innit for looks this is Education in welding,and welds look fine.More than that they Feel fine(you Know when you got a weld,right through the hammer handle,it feels Solid).
Ok,cool.So now we must steepen the learning curve.
Many sockets of this sort are forged octagonal.Why?...Well,i didn't do my apprenticeship nor journeyed for a stated number of years,didn't find that perfect shop where the Master's daughter(who was of course gorgeous and kind)would marry me,and so did not inherit neither the shop,nor the tools,not even any basic idea of how and why things were done...(boo-hoo...
So there's one way to find out - it's to break those fragile fresh weld-seams trying something daft...And that's of course what i do.
The forging feels great,i'm drifting it very confidently,so attempt to forge it into octagon on the drift,and open some seams,and contaminate them hopelessly.
Now i can just pitch the whole thing,but first-forensics,to learn all we can.I cut and grind into all the suspect places,finding that i only screwed up the extending part,most other seams are plenty good.So i decide to risk further time and fuel to at least practice the welding on of that added poll-mass.
That last was the photo of the grinding,then i had company in the forge and neglected my picture-taking.However the poll welded on fine,and at least for now i'm even kinda liking the resulting rough forging...
I Did learn a great deal,all joking aside it's an important and productive process.Once my brain recuperates a bit i'll even understand a bit more of what happened,(and if i'm super lucky even a little of why,maybe...)
*Just wanted to read his travails with the pictures.
Last edited:
Agent_H,thank you!
The first photo in the post is wrong,sorry about that,here's a one it Should've been:https://imgur.com/a/yj1VTBm
The first photo in the post is wrong,sorry about that,here's a one it Should've been:https://imgur.com/a/yj1VTBm
By the way,i'm of course a slob for leaving most weld-seams unblended(sometimes i'm unable to,and other times simply can't be "arsed"(as my British sweetheart would say.
But others do it too!Here's an example i came across not too long ago(it's German,too):https://imgur.com/a/LYu8Gtl
Yes,it's uncouth...But does not Necessarily indicates a crappy weld.
(Unlike arc welding where if it looks like crap it Is that,guaranteed;good welds Look good).
.But others do it too!Here's an example i came across not too long ago(it's German,too):https://imgur.com/a/LYu8Gtl
Yes,it's uncouth...But does not Necessarily indicates a crappy weld.
(Unlike arc welding where if it looks like crap it Is that,guaranteed;good welds Look good).
Square_peg
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2012
- Messages
- 13,823
It was an aggressive undertaking to forge weld those 2 adjacent surfaces simultaneously. Of course they're in the same plane but with the extension having so much less mass it undoubtedly cooled much faster than the body of the axe. Yet while heating it might almost burn before the body got up to welding temps. You'd almost have to be actively cooling the extension up until the body was nearly to forge heat. Then let them come to heat together. After maybe one or two blows to the body to set the position then work quickly to close the extension weld.
I expect you probably did something very much like this.
Square_peg,yes,that is a good,sound analysis of that part of the equation,the correlation of mass;and all the diverse parts in proportion to the heating regimen,including the Cooling rate.
All seams Must be closed within the first welding heat,the second at the very latest.
That is where i err consistently by not fitting parts together close enough prior to welding.It'd save these few precious seconds not having to bump the bulkier of parts close together.
The proportioning of mass itself is important,just like you say,because of cooling rate.Most unfortunately i have only just managed to access that excellent schematic by Bernard of exact measurements of just such a socket...Too late for me at this go,alas,my forge-time is almost up...
But his,a serious reverse-engineering endeavor,would necessitate an actual forging to shape of that socket jacket.And that is Seriously labor-intensive.I've given it a brief half-hearted go in the beginning,only to realise that i went with too light a gauge,3/8",and had to give it up and go with existing rolled plate,as the time is pressing....
Surprisingly,charcoal used in a bottom-blast forge gives one ridiculously exact heat control.
We of course must remember that this specific axe design has developed over a very long period of time,and was in part Based on exactly that feature,the precision of a solid-fuel forging.
So the heating actually went better than expected.
My skill is inadequate;the apportioning of mass was off,and,unfortunately,i think i stupidly have waded into funky material...
At some point there was a contractor around doing a project involving a bunch of 4140 plate...I think this is what i've gotten into,stupidly...
(am now trying to finish the inside of an eye on the pipe tomahawk and it Ain't no mild...as soon as the dirt and decarb layer was gone my files just lost any grip....).
I'll be winding the program down over the coming two weeks,HT,finishing,maybe even some hafts and sharpenings,but it's been a good little session.I've tons to think about for a while now for future attempts.
Thank you for participating in this process,it really helps.
All seams Must be closed within the first welding heat,the second at the very latest.
That is where i err consistently by not fitting parts together close enough prior to welding.It'd save these few precious seconds not having to bump the bulkier of parts close together.
The proportioning of mass itself is important,just like you say,because of cooling rate.Most unfortunately i have only just managed to access that excellent schematic by Bernard of exact measurements of just such a socket...Too late for me at this go,alas,my forge-time is almost up...
But his,a serious reverse-engineering endeavor,would necessitate an actual forging to shape of that socket jacket.And that is Seriously labor-intensive.I've given it a brief half-hearted go in the beginning,only to realise that i went with too light a gauge,3/8",and had to give it up and go with existing rolled plate,as the time is pressing....
Surprisingly,charcoal used in a bottom-blast forge gives one ridiculously exact heat control.
We of course must remember that this specific axe design has developed over a very long period of time,and was in part Based on exactly that feature,the precision of a solid-fuel forging.
So the heating actually went better than expected.
My skill is inadequate;the apportioning of mass was off,and,unfortunately,i think i stupidly have waded into funky material...
At some point there was a contractor around doing a project involving a bunch of 4140 plate...I think this is what i've gotten into,stupidly...
(am now trying to finish the inside of an eye on the pipe tomahawk and it Ain't no mild...as soon as the dirt and decarb layer was gone my files just lost any grip....).
I'll be winding the program down over the coming two weeks,HT,finishing,maybe even some hafts and sharpenings,but it's been a good little session.I've tons to think about for a while now for future attempts.
Thank you for participating in this process,it really helps.