Red rouge on paper wheels?

The Aflac Duck

The Aflac Duck

Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
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Hey guys, just got me some paper wheels and I'm absolutely loving them:thumbup: Now I understand what scary sharp truly means:D

Anyways...
I've been using the provided white rouge on my slotted wheel with great results.

But what about red rouge? From what I've read, red rouge is a step above white rouge in terms of polishing/finishing, so what if I bought an extra slotted wheel exclusively for red rouge?

Does anybody use red rouge on its own wheel, and how are the results compared to white rouge?
 
cbwx34 said:
If you're talking about what jewelers use to polish with, it's generally too soft to use on knives.

Take a look at this... Hardness Comparison Chart
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Thanks for the link, but where does white rouge fall on that list?

I see red rouge is for "soft metals" I'm assuming gold, silver, etc. but I though jewelers use white rouge before red rouge, thus both of them being for soft metals?
 
Blues Bender said:
Thanks for the link, but where does white rouge fall on that list?

I see red rouge is for "soft metals" I'm assuming gold, silver, etc. but I though jewelers use white rouge before red rouge, thus both of them being for soft metals?
Click to expand...

As mentioned, white rouge is often aluminum oxide, which is MUCH harder than red rouge (iron oxide). White rouge can still be very small in particle size, which means it'll still be a great polisher for harder metals (steel). In fact, AlOx compounds may be dangerous for plated jewelry or plated antiques, because the much harder AlOx is capable of stripping the very thin layer of plating off. If you see a white buffing compound that comes with a warning to avoid using it on plated items, it's likely aluminum oxide. Some vendors include such warnings, but many may not.

Some 'white' compounds will be tin oxide (sometimes called 'white diamond'; this is completely misleading), which is also too soft for steel. It may sometimes be what jewelers are using for softer metals like gold, silver, etc.

Reputable makers or vendors will usually specifically identify what the compound is made of (aluminum oxide, silicon carbide, chromium oxide, tin oxide, iron oxide, etc.). I'd avoid buying from vendors who can't or won't ID what it's made of.


David
 
So the white compound is around 600 grit?

I'm confused:confused: so if I'm getting a mirror polished edge with a 600 grit compound, why do people strop into the micron size?

I feel like I'm missing something. When I'm done on the slotted wheel, I usually strop on a good piece of leather and I can carve hairs. Should I be stroping with some compound after the paper wheels or is what I'm doing about as sharp as I can get?
 
Blues Bender said:
So the white compound is around 600 grit?

I'm confused:confused: so if I'm getting a mirror polished edge with a 600 grit compound, why do people strop into the micron size?

I feel like I'm missing something. When I'm done on the slotted wheel, I usually strop on a good piece of leather and I can carve hairs. Should I be stroping with some compound after the paper wheels or is what I'm doing about as sharp as I can get?
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'White' compounds can vary widely in grit range, from relatively coarse down to sub-micron sizes. The added variable is how hard a compound is; softer compounds don't cut as deeply in steel, so they'll effectively work at a 'finer' level than a harder compound that may still actually be smaller.

If your white compound is labelled as 600, it may be a bit larger than most 'rouge' compounds. But, as mentioned, if it's made of something softer than aluminum oxide, it may still polish effectively (or not at all, if it's too soft, like tin oxide). Best way to know how a compound works is to try it out. If you don't want to contaminate your wheels with unknown compound, just 'strop' with some of it on paper or wood, and it'll become more evident how it's working. White aluminum oxide should leave clear and obvious dark trails of swarf on paper or wood, when stropping a steel blade on it. If you don't see any of this, you're likely using a compound that's not well-suited for hardened metals.

( And, if you're carving hairs after your slotted wheel, you may not have any reason to strop anyway, unless you just want to. Most of us 'sharpening nuts' will usually keep trying anyway; it's just what we do. :D )


David
 
The chart was just a hardness reference, I'm sure the white compound that comes with the wheels is finer. Sorry for the confusion.
 
cbwx34 said:
The chart was just a hardness reference, I'm sure the white compound that comes with the wheels is finer. Sorry for the confusion.
Click to expand...

No problem, that chart makes a whole lot more sense now:thumbup:


Thanks Obsessed, for the informative posts. Now I know what to look for in things labeled as "rouge".
 
cbwx34 said:
The chart was just a hardness reference, I'm sure the white compound that comes with the wheels is finer. Sorry for the confusion.
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Looking at that chart, the many options characterized as 'alumina' will also be aluminum oxide, and at least some may also be 'white' in color (maybe grey, brown, pink, blue as well). The wide range of grit sizes available can be seen in those 'alumina' compounds listed in the chart.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Looking at that chart, the many options characterized as 'alumina' will also be aluminum oxide, and at least some may also be 'white' in color (maybe grey, brown, pink, blue as well). The wide range of grit sizes available can be seen in those 'alumina' compounds listed in the chart.


David
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Hmmm....

Makes me wonder what exactly my compounds grit size is. I got the RSES paperwheels and they provided a block of white compound labeled as "white jewelers rouge". I gotta say, it produces a very fine mirrored edge, so it must be in the micron size, or very close to it.

I'm gonna have to play with some of these compounds and see what I get:D
 
Blues Bender said:
Hmmm....

Makes me wonder what exactly my compounds grit size is. I got the RSES paperwheels and they provided a block of white compound labeled as "white jewelers rouge". I gotta say, it produces a very fine mirrored edge, so it must be in the micron size, or very close to it.

I'm gonna have to play with some of these compounds and see what I get:D
Click to expand...

For reference, other aluminum oxide polishing pastes that produce some pretty nice mirror polish are Flitz (3µ) and Simichrome (9µ). I've been using some Ryobi White Rouge (also aluminum oxide) that's labelled as 2-5µ size; this is my favorite AlOx compound so far. I'd think it's safe to assume most white rouge compounds that are labelled for polishing steel will likely be 10µ or finer. To add some more variation, some compounds may also be more 'friable', which means they may start out at a larger particle size, but break down to finer particles with some use. Some AlOx compounds or abrasives are actually engineered for this. I think the objective is to allow the compound to start out cleaning up a hard metal very aggressively (stripping away heavy scale or oxide, and removing heavier scratches), and then finishing more delicately with a high polish, as the grit breaks down in size.


David
 
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Red is generally for Silver, Gold, and other precious metals most of the time..
As mentioned, get the info of material & grit if possible? Usually Green is for stainless steel and I do great with the deburring and and final polishing of my edges when I load it on a Muslim buffing wheel. I suggest you give Green a try.

http://www.pjtool.com/polishing-com...olishing+compound&utm_campaign=jewelers+rouge I have purchased from these folks in the past, but will usually just get a bar or two of Green from Tru-grit or where I happen to be purchasing my belts.

Remember that paper has clay & glue in it and this is providing most of your polishing action with whatever you are loading them with second.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
For reference, other aluminum oxide polishing pastes that produce some pretty nice mirror polish are Flitz (3µ) and Simichrome (9µ). I've been using some Ryobi White Rouge (also aluminum oxide) that's labelled as 2-5µ size; this is my favorite AlOx compound so far. I'd think it's safe to assume most white rouge compounds that are labelled for polishing steel will likely be 10µ or finer. To add some more variation, some compounds may also be more 'friable', which means they may start out at a larger particle size, but break down to finer particles with some use. Some AlOx compounds or abrasives are actually engineered for this. I think the objective is to allow the compound to start out cleaning up a hard metal very aggressively (stripping away heavy scale or oxide, and removing heavier scratches), and then finishing more delicately with a high polish, as the grit breaks down in size.


David
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I got a tube of flitz right next to me! Ima have to try that out. I think the compound I'm using might be "friable" since it takes off the mirror finish when using it fresh, but then turns dark and polishes out to a mirror.


Rhinoknives1 said:
Red is generally for Silver, Gold, and other precious metals most of the time..
As mentioned, get the info of material & grit if possible? Usually Green is for stainless steel and I do great with the deburring and and final polishing of my edges when I load it on a Muslim buffing wheel. I suggest you give Green a try.

http://www.pjtool.com/polishing-com...olishing+compound&utm_campaign=jewelers+rouge I have purchased from these folks in the past, but will usually just get a bar or two of Green from Tru-grit or where I happen to be purchasing my belts.

Remember that paper has clay & glue in it and this is providing most of your polishing action with whatever you are loading them with second.
Click to expand...

Would you recomend the green compound on its own wheel? I thought about getting another slotted wheel for finer compounds to get "epic sharpness":D

Or do you recomend maybe stroping with the green on leather after I use the white on my slotted wheel?
 
Why don't you try some diamond paste or spray on a Paper Wheel ?
I've been doing that for a couple of years now, and both me & my customers are quite happy with the results.
 
Red rouge was used for mirror polishing entire blades for about a hundred years. While it may not cut some of the super steels well, it should still work.
Simichrome is a finer polish than Flitz and it works well on most steels.
 
Blues Bender said:
I got a tube of flitz right next to me! Ima have to try that out. I think the compound I'm using might be "friable" since it takes off the mirror finish when using it fresh, but then turns dark and polishes out to a mirror.




Would you recomend the green compound on its own wheel? I thought about getting another slotted wheel for finer compounds to get "epic sharpness":D

Or do you recomend maybe stroping with the green on leather after I use the white on my slotted wheel?
Click to expand...

Yes! I have one wheel for my green rouge and one low stich muslim that I load with white Fabuloustor that I use for buffing up my stabilized wooden handles after I hand sand to 1200-2000 grit.

I also use the Green on a thick leather strop. The reason you don't mix the different grits of rouge is that I don't want to buff up woods with a wheel that has had Green compound on it. You could buff the edge with white Fabuluster if you wanted, I would have a separate wheel for that so no steel ends up on a wheel that I want to buff wood on.

Here is a Rhino Chop of mine with the edge sharpened to 2000 grit and the handle buffed with white Fabuluster. There a little lint on the edge in this picture.DSCN5627.jpg DSCN5632.jpg
 
There are some great responses here:thumbup:

I don't even know why I ask for suggestions here... Every time I do, I end up spending more money:D:p
 
Blues Bender said:
There are some great responses here:thumbup:

I don't even know why I ask for suggestions here... Every time I do, I end up spending more money:D:p
Click to expand...

Because you want some more new toys and needed a little guidance and comforting on the purchase! LOL

I do the same thing! LOL
 
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