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Reflections of a man about telos...
- Thread starter Diomedes Industries
- Start date
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dont let your possessions posses you.
one of my many mantras
one of my many mantras
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Thank you to all, I have enjoyed reading this thread :thumbup:
The only thing I can add is my encouragement for those who wish to spend more time outdoors.
It really is worthwhile :thumbup::thumbup:
Kind regards
Mick
The only thing I can add is my encouragement for those who wish to spend more time outdoors.
It really is worthwhile :thumbup::thumbup:
Kind regards
Mick
For the last seven years I have absolutely, unashamedly, and with no regrets lived vicariously through my pursuit and collecting of Busse knives, and there is not anything wrong with doing it.
A hit and run leaving my daughter near death with permanent brain damage caused me to be severely confined while taking care of her, and often my Busse forum participation and collecting activities were my only ties to the outdoor activities I loved. The Busse associations helped me maintain my sanity, and I will forever be grateful for them.
As a plus, now that she is becoming more independent and I can get out more, I have a significant stock of great knives from which to draw (not that I will ever use most of them, and that's ok, also.) Other than perhaps obtaining a Dozier #2 skinner I have been coveting, I have no need and no plans to buy any fixed blade other than Busse.
A hit and run leaving my daughter near death with permanent brain damage caused me to be severely confined while taking care of her, and often my Busse forum participation and collecting activities were my only ties to the outdoor activities I loved. The Busse associations helped me maintain my sanity, and I will forever be grateful for them.
As a plus, now that she is becoming more independent and I can get out more, I have a significant stock of great knives from which to draw (not that I will ever use most of them, and that's ok, also.) Other than perhaps obtaining a Dozier #2 skinner I have been coveting, I have no need and no plans to buy any fixed blade other than Busse.
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I am pretty sure most of us here can survive in the wilds with a SAK or Mora as well.
But we can thrive in that setting with a better tool.:thumbup:
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2007
- Messages
- 5,846
I think searching for a better knife has merits- the technology is certainly not peaked.
There's a saying that anything that you do 'new' as a knifemaker has been done before. That's mostly true, but every maker is diffferent and has a different take on a method or profile or material.
There's the art aspect of it- you may be more likely to use a knife you enjoy on a deeper level?
For changing life, small steps work out well- If I waited to get out into the deep woods for every outdoor activity I'd get nothing done. - find some urban forage, scout off the trail at the local wetland, bypass, or greenbelt. Dig in a little- urban hiking is still hiking, and once you get out, you find amazing things.
When I lived in Herndon, VA, I stopped driving for a year, with a newborn baby and wife. Man, what an eye opener. I found hidden lakes, trails, deer. I went on a winter hike one day in the middle of the suburbs and never saw a house for miles- miles.
There's a saying that anything that you do 'new' as a knifemaker has been done before. That's mostly true, but every maker is diffferent and has a different take on a method or profile or material.
There's the art aspect of it- you may be more likely to use a knife you enjoy on a deeper level?
For changing life, small steps work out well- If I waited to get out into the deep woods for every outdoor activity I'd get nothing done. - find some urban forage, scout off the trail at the local wetland, bypass, or greenbelt. Dig in a little- urban hiking is still hiking, and once you get out, you find amazing things.
When I lived in Herndon, VA, I stopped driving for a year, with a newborn baby and wife. Man, what an eye opener. I found hidden lakes, trails, deer. I went on a winter hike one day in the middle of the suburbs and never saw a house for miles- miles.
batosai117
Gold Member
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This has turned into a great thread :thumbup: I've been peeking in on this for a while now, and I suppose I'd like to add my .02 to this 
As a full time student and full time worker, I haven't had weekends off to do anything outdoorsy (fishing, hiking, camping, hell just getting out). I find comfort in my knives and gear. Sort of like having part of the outdoors with me while I'm stuck inside.
I'm sure most of us has packed, and re-packed, and for the hell of it, dumped out your gear and re-organized it wishing and thinking of how you would get to use it sometime soon. Well, when that "sometime soon" doesn't happen for a while, it's comforting to get a new piece of gear or knife to jump start your spirit and hope of getting out there and doing something with it.
So, at this moment, I'm browsing stuff that I can't buy and wishing I could go fishing or camping for a weekend. So it will only be a matter of time before I go nuts
Take care, J.
As a full time student and full time worker, I haven't had weekends off to do anything outdoorsy (fishing, hiking, camping, hell just getting out). I find comfort in my knives and gear. Sort of like having part of the outdoors with me while I'm stuck inside.
I'm sure most of us has packed, and re-packed, and for the hell of it, dumped out your gear and re-organized it wishing and thinking of how you would get to use it sometime soon. Well, when that "sometime soon" doesn't happen for a while, it's comforting to get a new piece of gear or knife to jump start your spirit and hope of getting out there and doing something with it.
So, at this moment, I'm browsing stuff that I can't buy and wishing I could go fishing or camping for a weekend. So it will only be a matter of time before I go nuts
Take care, J.
ratamahatta
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I believe in what's being said, I've bought a couple of makers knives off of the forum and I'm pretty happy with all of them., plus I figured if my wife still keeps on buying jewelry, then I'll keep on buying knives.....I can't help it I like them all!!!!!!
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If you look at what Mike H is talking about - I think collecting is JUST FINE - if you know and understand that you are collecting. You just can't call yourself a paintball player if all you do is collect guns, and vice versa. You can't call yourself a woodsman if all you do is collect knifes. You also can't call yourself a collector if you use a few knives.
I think the difference is in the telos (purpose). If your purpose is to collect Busse Knives because that is as close as you are likely to get to the outdoors - then you are fulfilling that purpose and it made you happy.
If, in my case, I am searching for the perfect woodcraft knife, but don't get out in the woods to find out what that woodcraft knife would have to have to be perfect, then I am just buying and selling knives to put them through little tests in my garage.
If I was buying knives to test in my garage - I am going to be happy simply doing that - what I realized when I posted above is that I was NOT trying to buy those knives to simply do little tests - I was buying them to USE in the WOODS.
In that capacity I was attempting to make the purchase fulfill the USE of the knife - and what a shock - that did not work!
So - I think that ties into my second point. Why not a Mora? Well, if I was out using it - I would perhaps know why not a Mora if I can afford more.
Here is what I learned this weekend. My Mora is great - My new Koster is great. I need to sharpen my Koster less. So, if I can afford a Koster (in this example) then why not?
I think it is a crime to think that the purchase is the activity, unless you have defined the purchase as the activity.
I think it is a greater crime to let your purchases be so extravagant as to prevent you from partaking in that activity (those that work to pay off debt and can't get away).
These, again, are just my thoughts.
TF
I think the difference is in the telos (purpose). If your purpose is to collect Busse Knives because that is as close as you are likely to get to the outdoors - then you are fulfilling that purpose and it made you happy.
If, in my case, I am searching for the perfect woodcraft knife, but don't get out in the woods to find out what that woodcraft knife would have to have to be perfect, then I am just buying and selling knives to put them through little tests in my garage.
If I was buying knives to test in my garage - I am going to be happy simply doing that - what I realized when I posted above is that I was NOT trying to buy those knives to simply do little tests - I was buying them to USE in the WOODS.
In that capacity I was attempting to make the purchase fulfill the USE of the knife - and what a shock - that did not work!
So - I think that ties into my second point. Why not a Mora? Well, if I was out using it - I would perhaps know why not a Mora if I can afford more.
Here is what I learned this weekend. My Mora is great - My new Koster is great. I need to sharpen my Koster less. So, if I can afford a Koster (in this example) then why not?
I think it is a crime to think that the purchase is the activity, unless you have defined the purchase as the activity.
I think it is a greater crime to let your purchases be so extravagant as to prevent you from partaking in that activity (those that work to pay off debt and can't get away).
These, again, are just my thoughts.
TF
Great post and some of you fellers are really great writers! I was thinking about this today and came up with this rambling...
There are many facets of what makes knives appealing to me. Here are a few:
The knife is one of man's oldest and most successful tools. As such, I believe that it holds many symbolic representations on ascension to man hood. For instance, this leap from boy-hood embodies many adult responsibilities such as the projection of the hunter/gather model (ability to provide for your family), proof that you possess at least the fundamental skills needed to use this potentially dangerous tool (measurement tool against other peers) , and is a mark of status.
I think a few of these points is why we "collect" knives even if we use them. While I think most of us see a knife and think, " I bet that would be great for xxxxx duty" you have to wonder, do we look at that duty as important? If yes, then I think we can tie the importance of the task to our understanding of it's importance in our lives. If not, I bet most of us would tend to look at the knife in a disapproving manner.
I also think we collect knives, at least subconsciously, to show others that we feel share the same values as us and seek approval from said people. That is why, in my opinion, we all love to share our "knife porn" on this forum. Many of us know the value of the knife we have and categorize it according to it's intended purpose. X knife is valuable to x person due to it's steel properties. Or it's the best value vs the money. Or maybe it's due to the knife's rarity. Regardless of how we categorize them, we all enjoy to share our pride and joys, and most of us enjoy seeing them and value them for either their artistic quality, craftmenship, or intended use.
I think that what Tal has said concerning the knives is true. That people associate a knife to a certain outdoors activity. Looking at a few of my knives, I can remember how it felt when I used it on a particular camping trip. Good, bad, or indifferent, those experiences shape the way I feel about that blade, and others like it. This is discovering your likes and dislikes and motivates many of us to get outside.
In short, there are many reasons I like blades. If they were nothing more than a catalyst for me getting outdoors, then that'd be ok by me.
There are many facets of what makes knives appealing to me. Here are a few:
The knife is one of man's oldest and most successful tools. As such, I believe that it holds many symbolic representations on ascension to man hood. For instance, this leap from boy-hood embodies many adult responsibilities such as the projection of the hunter/gather model (ability to provide for your family), proof that you possess at least the fundamental skills needed to use this potentially dangerous tool (measurement tool against other peers) , and is a mark of status.
I think a few of these points is why we "collect" knives even if we use them. While I think most of us see a knife and think, " I bet that would be great for xxxxx duty" you have to wonder, do we look at that duty as important? If yes, then I think we can tie the importance of the task to our understanding of it's importance in our lives. If not, I bet most of us would tend to look at the knife in a disapproving manner.
I also think we collect knives, at least subconsciously, to show others that we feel share the same values as us and seek approval from said people. That is why, in my opinion, we all love to share our "knife porn" on this forum. Many of us know the value of the knife we have and categorize it according to it's intended purpose. X knife is valuable to x person due to it's steel properties. Or it's the best value vs the money. Or maybe it's due to the knife's rarity. Regardless of how we categorize them, we all enjoy to share our pride and joys, and most of us enjoy seeing them and value them for either their artistic quality, craftmenship, or intended use.
I think that what Tal has said concerning the knives is true. That people associate a knife to a certain outdoors activity. Looking at a few of my knives, I can remember how it felt when I used it on a particular camping trip. Good, bad, or indifferent, those experiences shape the way I feel about that blade, and others like it. This is discovering your likes and dislikes and motivates many of us to get outside.
In short, there are many reasons I like blades. If they were nothing more than a catalyst for me getting outdoors, then that'd be ok by me.
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- Sep 14, 2007
- Messages
- 504
Maybe i only need a Mora, But i WANT and FFBM! 
I have to say that I am somewhere in the middle on this one...
I don't "collect" knives in the sense that I buy and keep them as an investment. I more "accumulate" them, because I like the look, or the way they feel in my hand, or the use that I could and do put them to.
BUT
I do find myself watching other people's bushcraft vids & obsessing over camping gear MUCH more than I actually spend time doing those things.
So when I buy a knife, I'd say 2/3 of it is the enjoyment of the experience of the knife itself (the sweep of the blade, how it feels in my hand, how it carves, etc.), and 1/3 of it is me imagining myself having the knowledge and craft of a Mors Kochanski, Ray Mears, etc. to literally carve out a place in the wilderness with it.
I haven't yet decided how and what I'm going to do about it.
I don't "collect" knives in the sense that I buy and keep them as an investment. I more "accumulate" them, because I like the look, or the way they feel in my hand, or the use that I could and do put them to.
BUT
I do find myself watching other people's bushcraft vids & obsessing over camping gear MUCH more than I actually spend time doing those things.
So when I buy a knife, I'd say 2/3 of it is the enjoyment of the experience of the knife itself (the sweep of the blade, how it feels in my hand, how it carves, etc.), and 1/3 of it is me imagining myself having the knowledge and craft of a Mors Kochanski, Ray Mears, etc. to literally carve out a place in the wilderness with it.
I haven't yet decided how and what I'm going to do about it.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,012
Witter on -
Well, as much as I like nice things I'm ever vigilant to a valve model of more is good; more christmas dinner, more drugs, more knives, more whatever. For me it isn't, although there is a definite tendency towards it. Perfect moderation is an elusive path and one that takes my effort.
I wrote here before about how I had nearly come full circle with knives. Along with other things I used to be constantly on the look out to pounce on the next thing on the market. I was never truly satisfied with what I had. I strongly suspect at the time that was born of a couple of things. I became empowered to do so while living in London, and I had become estranged from real world use. The plan was always to move back out to the countryside and in my mind I was stockpiling the tools for a rematch. Never again would I have to suffer a KA-BAR, or wet feet, or blah. In sum, I hoarded.
I sold up and bought two properties and that was the beginning of this approach. I realized that much of what I had accrued was just sat packed away as junk. I got rid of it. I did the same with books. For one that doesn't have the headspace to fill with stuff that some random bloke has made up I'd gathered quite a library of fiction along with all the other books. Why, dunno. They just sat there useless, gathering dust. I got rid of the lot. Now I'm strictly digital. Same with a bunch of other stuff including outdoor gear and knives.
Where did that tendency come from? In part I blame the father as a model. He was a sucker for it. I've written here before about how when he decided to get into fishing he came back with a bunch of top kit, a boat, and a dirty great tender that alone would have been great for fishing. He was sold to. By gosh was he ever a salesman's wet dream. He never seemed to get a great deal of satisfaction from it though. The other part I guess is just my tendency toward the valve model and more being good. I've certainly done it in other areas too. Back when, I used to obsess about wringing the maximum from computers. Water cooling and modding the chips with conductive paint. Not a chance I would have bought anything other than Corsair at CAS 2. Faster, faster, faster. Didn't use it for much though. It took me a while to quit that too, but I recall it vividly. After hanging with some people that used their machines for truly interesting stuff, and seeing what they were running, my approach changed a lot. Then, one fine day, after being exposed to what these people actually do in the world, I was sitting there at one of mah machines and there was an obstacle to X. I genuinely caught myself muttering out loud how fvckin' dare you, this is digital. Man that felt good. So good. The penny dropped. Finger pointing to the moon and all that. I had spent far too much effort on the machines and not enough about leaning what I could do with them, real deal. Now obviously one has to keep up to date to a certain extent. CS4 simply wont run on a machine from the ark and who likes to wait for a video to transcode, but I've not overclocked another machine since. That absolutely parallels what I have done with other kit, including knives. I am now so much more satisfied.
In fact, with the viciousness of an ex-smoker, I am privately rather disparaging now. I have seen my light so clearly. It now amuses me more than anything else when I see lists of stuff that people have but clearly don't use. For a person that doesn't read much fiction it may come a surprise to you too that I've coined it the Bret Easton Ellis model; you how annoying it is when reading American Psycho that the central character repeatedly name-drops label after endless bloody label as Ellis takes the piss out of the '80s YUPPIE mentality. Same with a lot of accounts I read on forums. I got up and drank my A coffee from my B mug and put on my C tie. Walking across my D carpet I sauntered to my E back door. I turned the key in the F lock and looked wistfully and my G car. I wondered how much longer I'd have to wait for the new model. Those hills wont be around forever and I needed some dirt time bad.... You get the idea.
Don't get me wrong, I still like good kit. I won't swap my bergan, I like Soul emitters, I won't use crap knives, I enjoy nice boots .etc, but mere possession is no substitute for actually getting out for a few days. It is secondary.
I guess the last piece of the jigsaw is probably mah woman. Being somewhat younger than I and having traveled a very different path she is quite naïve about kit, yet she gets out with me a lot and loves it. She is satisfied. True, I point her in the right direction occasionally if she is way off with her kit, but the beauty of it is I don't meddle or over advise. She's happy using a modest knife, a modest pack, and often shows up in jeans. I took her out for a peddle a couple of days back [probably poke a couple of pics up later]. The place attracts the Lycra mountain bikers with some very expensive bikes. She went round it in scruffy garb on a plain tredder she bought off her father for £200 GBP. She looked a whole bunch happier to me than if we'd sat indoors while I told her she really needed bike X. Satisfaction through just being and living it.
These cows are now content.
- Witter off
Well, as much as I like nice things I'm ever vigilant to a valve model of more is good; more christmas dinner, more drugs, more knives, more whatever. For me it isn't, although there is a definite tendency towards it. Perfect moderation is an elusive path and one that takes my effort.
I wrote here before about how I had nearly come full circle with knives. Along with other things I used to be constantly on the look out to pounce on the next thing on the market. I was never truly satisfied with what I had. I strongly suspect at the time that was born of a couple of things. I became empowered to do so while living in London, and I had become estranged from real world use. The plan was always to move back out to the countryside and in my mind I was stockpiling the tools for a rematch. Never again would I have to suffer a KA-BAR, or wet feet, or blah. In sum, I hoarded.
I sold up and bought two properties and that was the beginning of this approach. I realized that much of what I had accrued was just sat packed away as junk. I got rid of it. I did the same with books. For one that doesn't have the headspace to fill with stuff that some random bloke has made up I'd gathered quite a library of fiction along with all the other books. Why, dunno. They just sat there useless, gathering dust. I got rid of the lot. Now I'm strictly digital. Same with a bunch of other stuff including outdoor gear and knives.
Where did that tendency come from? In part I blame the father as a model. He was a sucker for it. I've written here before about how when he decided to get into fishing he came back with a bunch of top kit, a boat, and a dirty great tender that alone would have been great for fishing. He was sold to. By gosh was he ever a salesman's wet dream. He never seemed to get a great deal of satisfaction from it though. The other part I guess is just my tendency toward the valve model and more being good. I've certainly done it in other areas too. Back when, I used to obsess about wringing the maximum from computers. Water cooling and modding the chips with conductive paint. Not a chance I would have bought anything other than Corsair at CAS 2. Faster, faster, faster. Didn't use it for much though. It took me a while to quit that too, but I recall it vividly. After hanging with some people that used their machines for truly interesting stuff, and seeing what they were running, my approach changed a lot. Then, one fine day, after being exposed to what these people actually do in the world, I was sitting there at one of mah machines and there was an obstacle to X. I genuinely caught myself muttering out loud how fvckin' dare you, this is digital. Man that felt good. So good. The penny dropped. Finger pointing to the moon and all that. I had spent far too much effort on the machines and not enough about leaning what I could do with them, real deal. Now obviously one has to keep up to date to a certain extent. CS4 simply wont run on a machine from the ark and who likes to wait for a video to transcode, but I've not overclocked another machine since. That absolutely parallels what I have done with other kit, including knives. I am now so much more satisfied.
In fact, with the viciousness of an ex-smoker, I am privately rather disparaging now. I have seen my light so clearly. It now amuses me more than anything else when I see lists of stuff that people have but clearly don't use. For a person that doesn't read much fiction it may come a surprise to you too that I've coined it the Bret Easton Ellis model; you how annoying it is when reading American Psycho that the central character repeatedly name-drops label after endless bloody label as Ellis takes the piss out of the '80s YUPPIE mentality. Same with a lot of accounts I read on forums. I got up and drank my A coffee from my B mug and put on my C tie. Walking across my D carpet I sauntered to my E back door. I turned the key in the F lock and looked wistfully and my G car. I wondered how much longer I'd have to wait for the new model. Those hills wont be around forever and I needed some dirt time bad.... You get the idea.
Don't get me wrong, I still like good kit. I won't swap my bergan, I like Soul emitters, I won't use crap knives, I enjoy nice boots .etc, but mere possession is no substitute for actually getting out for a few days. It is secondary.
I guess the last piece of the jigsaw is probably mah woman. Being somewhat younger than I and having traveled a very different path she is quite naïve about kit, yet she gets out with me a lot and loves it. She is satisfied. True, I point her in the right direction occasionally if she is way off with her kit, but the beauty of it is I don't meddle or over advise. She's happy using a modest knife, a modest pack, and often shows up in jeans. I took her out for a peddle a couple of days back [probably poke a couple of pics up later]. The place attracts the Lycra mountain bikers with some very expensive bikes. She went round it in scruffy garb on a plain tredder she bought off her father for £200 GBP. She looked a whole bunch happier to me than if we'd sat indoors while I told her she really needed bike X. Satisfaction through just being and living it.
These cows are now content.
- Witter off
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,825
Wow, this is a great thread. I have actually been struggling with this lately. Recently I realized that I have an abundance of gear that over the past year or so I have been acquiring in anticipation of some great outdoor experience. I have no plans for any one outing or even an idea of what I want to do. It is simply the thought that one day in the near future I will go out and enjoy the outdoors. Last month it hit me that if I do not set aside the time I will never do this and the opportunities will pass by me. This moment was an epiphany of sorts and now I have decided to not buy another piece of gear until I have thoroughly tested and enjoyed the items I already have. This will not be easy because every time I see a bit of new kit I have the urge to get it but I think I will find more enjoyment from using what I have instead of opening a box of shiny new gear. I will at least have the comfort in knowing that I "did" instead of the lingering "plan to do".
I would definitely classify myself as a collector and find no negative stigma attached to it. I buy knives and gear that I intend to use but I also find joy in just unpacking and repacking gear, fondling knives and being apart of this forum.
I would definitely classify myself as a collector and find no negative stigma attached to it. I buy knives and gear that I intend to use but I also find joy in just unpacking and repacking gear, fondling knives and being apart of this forum.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2007
- Messages
- 7,443
I think there is no shame in collecting. I think there will be unhappiness if you collect when you consider yourself a user.
That is, in my case, where the unhappiness comes from.
What I am doing right now is to train in my garage for the skills I want to use in the woods. Mostly this is because I have kids, but I could take more time to take trips.
TF
That is, in my case, where the unhappiness comes from.
What I am doing right now is to train in my garage for the skills I want to use in the woods. Mostly this is because I have kids, but I could take more time to take trips.
TF