refusal of ABS submission knives?

For a variety of reason. And, I really don't see why anyone should have to justify or even explain what they do.

In fact, there are plenty of reasons why someone might not want to sign their blades. There's a bunch of pieces that end up on scrap piles because they don't meet the criteria that the smith set for himself. There's also a number of blades that make it out, but without the smith's name, because he doesn't want to have his name associated with such a blade. During decades of work, people develop a look, a feel, that they are attached to. They might do something that doesn't match what they want to do for a variety of reasons - such as meet given requirements - and not want their name on it. I think that's a personnal choice that anyone should respect.

I'd love to get back to the ABS subject. I just paid my dues for the first time, and I'd love to know more about the ABS. One thing that surprises me is why some good smiths have chosen not to be part of the ABS. Any idea as to why they don't?

JD
 
Originally posted by Ed Fowler
It was mentioned that swords and other stuff should be included in the Master program. This is absolute nonsense. The result would be trinkets that look like swords. I know a man who has devoted an entire lifetime to the study and art of the sword. Swords that work and have the spirit of the sword in them. He admits that he has only scratched the surface. The sword has been an artifact of many civilizatons and probably hundreds of thousands of blade smiths devoting all their talents to one specific type of sword. Families sharing information for generations and still learning. It is the height of conceit to think that our bladesmiths could achieve even a portion of their achievements, or that we have in our community the knowledge to judge?
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Well, people have been making knives for even longer, it doesn't prevent us from making them and judging them. And for what it's worth, people still use swords. There are dozens of martial art school that teach Jpz style swordsmanship (battojutsu or iado, etc), and the swords produced by people like Howard Clark are probably much superior in performance to traditional Jpz swords. They certainly are tested on a daily basis. If anything, I'd be willing to bet that more people nowadays practice Jpz swordsmanship in the world than 100 or 200 years ago.

I remember a post on another forum from someone anxious to make a blade able to pass the cutting part of the JS test. Don Fogg & Howard Clark, both MS, responded and said + or -: "it's a test. It's not supposed to be your best blade, or a blade with your soul in it - it's supposed to demonstrate that you can make a blade that fits specific requirement." In short, it's what I would call an exercise of style - it's not supposed to be something the smith is interested in (e.g., he might be only interested in fancy folders), but it's a piece where the smith demonstrate that he can do that. Same thing for the dagger - it doesn't have to be a piece you believe in - it's just a demonstration that you can make one. Then you can throw it down the gutter if you don't want to ever see it again.

A sword would be the same thing - only a sword is much more difficult to make than a knife, hence demonstrate higher control. If you add to that a folder, a dagger, an axe, and a fixed-blade, you demonstrate considerable versatility.

Im still interested in what are the pitfalls us young smiths should worry about.

Cheers,

JD
 
Joss,
I'm sure there's lots of reasons why some good smiths dont join the ABS, just as there are many excellent knifemakers who don't join the Knifemaker's Guild. Some are just not joiners preferring to solo, some hate the politics that such organizations always have, and some may just not care about the labels.
Anthony, that wasn't Ed blowing his horn, that was Angie, and only a very fortunate few of us get to have a wife that believes in them that much.(doesn't hurt that she's a NYer too :) )
In knives there will always be opposing views in different areas. The stainless/carbon debate, forge/stock removal, art knives/user knives, and on and on. Discussions like this are good, they bring out good points from both sides of an issue. Personally, I disagree with adding swords to the tests only because I have no interest in them. Perhaps there can be different designations for those who want to be sword/knifemakers.
I respect the work and opinions of both Mr. Fisk and Mr. Fowler. I have never met or talked to Jerry Fisk but have admired his work for years. Ed and Angie Fowler are 2 people I choose to call my friends. As in any field of endeavor where someone has voluntarily given years of their lives they are very passionate about it. I don't think you can find anyone anywhere who ruins more good blades and spends more time testing than Ed Fowler. He believes in what he does with his entire being. That's a good thing.

Dave
 
Angie,
I did not mean to stir up anything by posting what I did. I was just wondering why anyone would go the distance it takes to become a Master and then not use their stamp. I am glad that you stand behind Ed because knifemakers need alot of support. It takes a strong women to be able to do this for her man.
Steph
 
If we are having pie, let's make it pumpkin!!!! By the way, I will not cut something i cannot eat...LOL:D

Steph:
I understand your question. No problem....i just want these folks to try to understand where Ed is coming from. There are so many views---and room for all of them. Take forging, for instance....what Ed calls forging differs from what many of these guys consider it. Ed has many views that differ from the standard ones---that is what makes him so interesting....and makes him a renegade in the ABS---I LOVE IT!!!!!
Thanks for your post,
angie fowler:)
 
I have come to like both Ed and Jerry very much and respect both of their views as I do the views of all who have an opinion on this subject. As has been stated there is room for the views of all.

What Ed has stated is exactly what he believes, which is as it should be. He should not ever change the way he thinks or does things just so that he can fit in better with what others think is the right way to do things. I am sure that there are some that wish Ed would not be so outspoken in his beliefs. That isn't going to happen. To tell you the truth, the reason that I have so much respect for Ed, besides his great ability to make knives, is that he believes so very strongly in what he does. Though I have not communicated with Jerry nearly as much as I have Ed, I believe that Jerry is also a man of his convictions and is passionate about the ABS and it's roll in the world of knives.

These two men and others like them. Those with the passion and the fire within them are the ones that are going to insure that the knives we covet in the future are going to be much better than the ones we all love now. It is the inspiration and the perspiration of men like these that leave me confident that those that listen to, and learn from what they have to teach, will be the next generation pushing the boundries of the forged blade.

The fact that there views differ is great. If everyone in the ABS thought and felt the same, then things would stagnate. Everyone would be happy with the status-quo and we all know what happens when people become complacent.
 
Keith: Thank you. youir thoughts highlite the secessity of threads such as theis. All too many decisions and assumptions are made arbitrairly with out full discussion of the full consequences.
There may be no absolute right or wrong, but all should be fully discussed, then decisions can be made with, hopefully, knowledge considered.

Joss: You ask what pitfalls awaite the beginning bladesmith, I include all of us in that catagory. First of all is the belief that we know more than we do. It is easy to look around our present environment and believe we have all the facts when in reality only the most simplistic assumptions are possible, and very probably wrong.

Consider the Weatern art of Russell and Remmington. Remmington was a great artist, his horses would undoubtadly win the county fair horse show. A horse as seen and described by Russell was the kind that would get the job done and get you back home. Russell lived the West he portryed, he lived it and knew well the reality of his art. Remington came from the university and visited the
west. They were both great men, Russell cast a longer shaddow for there is a great difference between the art of the university and that of real life. The problem is that the student of Remmington thinks he knows the west and
expects the ideas he comes to believe in are viable. We can only hope he never gets into a jackpot and survive with his Remmington knowledge. We can only appreciate knowledge when we realise the vast unknown that surrounds it.
 
In reply to Joss' question, '' why don't a lot of good smiths join the ABS''. Joss , I would like to join myself and intend to do so inthe near futue. I simply haven't as yet because I am busy making knives and haven't had the oppotunity or time to travel, I am sure ther are others in a similar situation .There are many smiths ,( some of them exceptional ) in parts of Asia, and Europe who would not even know of the ABS existence.
 
Originally posted by steve f
Joss , I would like to join myself and intend to do so inthe near futue. I simply haven't as yet because I am busy making knives and haven't had the oppotunity or time to travel, I am sure ther are others in a similar situation.
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FWIW, you can sign up online with a credit card. Costs $60.

JD
 
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