Regarding "Knock off Alert"

My friend, If your claim to being unique lies in the fact that you are a maker or collector of knives - than that which you "call your own" is somewhat limited and fairly insignificant outside of our little circle.
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You are certainly entitled to that opinion, as I am entitled to think you have never done anything significant in any profession. That is not a bad thing, but lets say you were to invent something very cool and you start getting ripped off. You wouldnt like it a bit.

I agree that is the way it should be done
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Double standards pal.



If you want to protect a design you MUST patent, copyright or trademark it. If you are not willing to take the time and spend the money there is no point in crying when somebody else takes your design and out sells you with it.
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This is very disapointing from a man I respect. :(
 
The people who sell or buy knockoffs KNOWINGLY will not understand why shouldnt, they dont possess the moral qualities neccessary, so you're wasting your time trying to explain it.

It's like people who buy "hot" stuff, they dont understand they are funding thieves.
 
Condemning ripoff knockoff knives is easy when it's a well respected maker like Strider, but where do you draw the line?

The Strider ripoffs, and Emerson ripoffs are wrong. Period. They use the known look to sell cheap knives because they can. But when the Microtech HALO III ripoffs came out there were many people defending them saying they were worth the money considering the fairly decent quality of the knives compared to the price ($40 vs. $300).

I still say they are stealing from the original design, and shouldn't be supported at any level based on the theft from the original designer.

So, would you contest so violently the fact that ripoffs are wrong if, for example's sake, a company ripped off a Swiss Army Knife?

I would.

I don't, and never will, buy a cheaper version of any design.

A thief is a thief, no matter if they steal $1000 or $.01.
 
Maybe I have completely missed the point. It has been my belief that the issue was never about CHINA being able to take a knife made by Emerson, Strider, Simonich or Microtech [there are many more] and produce almost identical duplicates [the "subtle difference being they say CHINA:rolleyes: . Of course, because NAFTA makes them stamp it so] and outsell the true Model because they are made with child labor under horrendous conditions [another story].

The issue should be that the knife community stand together and take action by REFUSING to buy this crap.

We all know it's intellectual theft, we all know there is no way to stop it, and to simply accept it as a way of life [Sorry A.G.] is so typically "American". Afterall, we accept sh*t like serial killings in this Country, We all agree the war on drugs is lost, there will be more acts of terrorism, SO why bother with CHINA taking the Entire STRIDER line and mass producing crap and putting it side by side at 1/10 the price?

The true knife lover will notice the difference and look to quality, But in the clone industry the connisseur is not the target group. It's Joe everyday end user that buys a knife because it looks cool and thinks "stainless steel" is the best steel and the only steel.

Tolerance is so American!!!!! CHINA will never stop as long as we remain a viable market for their Clones. To simply accept it is bullsh*t. To dismiss it by saying "look at the subtle differences, these are not identical" is being naive. [If CHINA stamped STRIDER on the above knife, they could face action from Uncle Sam].

We have all simply got to stop buying these pieces of garbage and send a message to ANY dealer or distributor that we refuse to do business with them until they cease using the intellectual property of fellow Americans to make a profit.......PERIOD.
 
I do have a problem understanding some peoples indignation regarding knock offs. As I mentioned in a previous post knock offs are everywhere. Not just in the knife world - everywhere. Not just in the supermarket, not just in the hardware store, not just in the clothing store. Everywhere. Every ****ing where. Do you guys get upset about the generic Cheerios.

Get a grip.

In the knife world these knock offs have often fallen short from a quality standpoint but are amusing none the less.
In the rest of the world these knock offs represent good value if they meet ones standards (quality, taste, did the medicine cure you, etc.).

As far as the comments suggesting those who buy knock offs are unaccomplished or morally bankrupt. It doesn't seem appropriate to personally attack someone when you are discussing something. But since you're in I feel the need to go there with you. So for Mr Simonich and lifter4him - a hearty F**k you.
 
You forgot about me!

Please, add me to your list, Mr. averageguy.

If there's gonna be any standing to be done, I'd like to stand with Mr. Simonich and Mr. Lifter4him.

The fact is that people who buy these knock-off knives either don't know any better or they are unaccomplished or morally bankrupt.

What they are, very often, is selfish. They want the latest, cool-looking knife, but they are to cheap to pay the price and they don't care if their selfish ways hurt other people. What's important to them is that they get that cool-looking knife without spending to much of their money (so that they have enough left over for a fake Rolex and some of those counterfeit Nike shoes too). They don't care what impact their actions have on other people.

And when you try and point this out to them, try and explain it to them, their ears close right up because you're trying to tell them something they don't want to hear.
 
I can't seem to get anyone to respond to this suggestion. I'll try again. Fishing rod and car manufacturers offer a range or scale of products. Their price is based on the bells and whistles or refinements. You can buy a St. Croix casting rod for under one hundred dollars, or you can go all the way up to in excess of $300 for one of their rods. Both are good products but they're intended to meet different market needs. Why don't knife manufacturers do the same?

I don't think everyone who buys a knock off is morally bankrupt. They might be kind of ignorant, but even that may be a stretch. They are buying the highest quality product they can afford, or fits their notion of value, for the least amount of money. That's called the market. Don't snivel, compete. Lower the grade of steel, AUS 6 or J420 or 440A or whatever, which is what these guys get with their knock-offs anyway, drop some of the refinements, the fit, the finish, and offer a name brand (everyone has a bit of snobbery in them) at a competitive price.

And in fact, the guys who buy knock offs aren't going to buy a Microtech or a CR knife even if you outlaw all others. They're not, in that sense, costing the designer and the high end manufacturer a penny. That reduces the angst to "principle." Screw that.
Go after the market with a better product at an equal or better price. I think that is the only way do deal with this.
 
The people who sell or buy knockoffs KNOWINGLY will not understand why shouldnt, they dont possess the moral qualities neccessary, so you're wasting your time trying to explain it.
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Lifter, you are right so I will quit wasting air on it. :D

Gollnick, I am sure he will get around to you. :D At least it was a hearty send off! :p
 
The biggest problem I see is that there are American companies importing these knock-offs right in the backyard of the makers. The problem is that knifemaking ain't a biz that'll get someone on the front cover of Fortune magazine as one of the world's richest people. So, these knock-offs threaten the livelihoods of the makers, and the families they have to feed. Does that compute now averageguy? Intellectualizing from your chair behind your computer is kind of silly on your part. Rob and the other makers are not intellectualizing -- they are fighting for every dollar they work hard to earn, and they speak from the heart and soul.

And averageguy, DEFINITELY add me to your list of people who get a hearty f**k off. If we meet in person someday, I'll happily stand there and listen to you try to tell me to f**k off right to my face. I say happily, because I don't think you'd have the guts to be that rude and "brave" in person with anyone.

~Brian.
 
Averageguy,
I am a handmade knife collector and a full time handmade knife maker.

I believe your comment using the "f-word" was totally uncalled for.

Rob and Lifter and Gollnick, and Brian have a very valid point of view.
Knockoffs knowingly purchased are like the fake Rolex or Tag watch..You buy it to try to impress either yourself or worse, to try to falsely impress some unknowing acquaitance that you have a name brand quality knife and you are lying in that representation.

I think one who buys a knockoff with intent to misrepresent it as the real thing is a sadder excuse for a person than the one who made the knockoff.
If a knokoff really makes you happy, as compared to the real thing, I feel kinda sorry for your not understanding the joy of handling a fine Tag or Rolex or Simonich, or Centofante ...on and on.
I wonder at the quality of workmanship put into the real thing...
I am sorry that you won't know that joy......
And I don't eat generic Cheerios either.

Peace to you,
 
Fine - Anybody else who wants to be on the F**K you list consider yourselves added to the list. You new guys into the fray so anxious to be on the list, read the whole post and see who started with the insults. A big special F**K you to Jones - you fairy.
 
Originally posted by averageguy
A big special F**K you to Jones - you fairy.
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Wow! I'm honored! averageguy -- you are one bad-assed chairborne commando, dude! Man, that was so harsh I think I soiled my pants...


....from laughter.


Signed,

The Fairy
 
Let's keep this civil, folks.
 
Ummmm Brian, you werent been looking at my butt in Vegas when we drank all that Scotch were you? :D :D
 
Rob,

The shadow of that big ol hat hides the rest of you, so, even if I was looking, I wouldn't be able to see it! :D
 
Gents,
I have always found that you can always sell crap. (Just look in the window of a ;Reject Shop' or other tacky establishment) I think that the people who but crap are either 'taste challenged' or just too tight to part with the cash. With all due respect I don't feel that the few who buy knockoff's are really hurting the quality makers.

Temper
 
average guy, ok, you're right, and I peed my pants cause you scared me:eek:

Rob, you and Brian are on your own, I aint a-messing with this tough guy:rolleyes:
 
That last line in A.G. Russell's post makes an intersting point, in that if someone is making money copying a maker, then that maker has obviously done an excellent job in designing a knife.

I'd guess that knockoffs will be around a long time. In everything. People will buy out of ignorance, or selfishness. If they know it is wrong, if they know the knife they are buying is illegally copied from a particular maker, then then they are stealing the ideas from the maker by creating the market for the knockoffs.

And keeping it civil, a discussion board for knife enthusiasts, dealers and makers is a bad place to champion knockoffs.
 
Rob, you and Brian are on your own, I aint a-messing with this tough guy
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He's not a tough guy, he's just average.

:D

And, Dave, I've seen pictures of you and I think you could take him.;)
 
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