Rekat Carnie Cub

Shmackey

Shmackey

Joined
May 5, 2000
Messages
1,478
Originally posted in the REKAT forum under Manufacturers:

Based on all the advice I've seen, I decided to smooth out the very gritty action on my Carnie Cub.

I carefully disassembled it--and managed to hold onto the spring--and found something surprising. The thing was full of black grit. Looked like G-10 residue from the machining process. Not very reassuring. So I cleaned that all out, lubed everything down, and proceeded to re-assemble the knife...

...when the spring just flew across the room. I managed to keep my wits about me and, believe it or not, I found it. If anyone knows where I could get a couple of these springs, I'd really like to buy some.

Anyhow, I got it all back together, G-10 grit-free. But guess what...still rough. Upon closer inspection, I realized that the gritty feel comes from the lack of polishing on the round end of the blade where the rolling lock maintains contact through the opening arc. Unlike on my Benchmade Axis locks, this area of the blade on the Carnie wasn't really polished.

If your REKAT feels gritty, here's a test: pull the sliding lock release back all the way and then use the thumbstud to open the knife. If the gritty feeling is gone, then you have my problem. See, pulling the lock release all the way back means that the rolling lock is no longer contacting the rear end of the blade at all.

So...to make a very long story only a little long, I broke out the 600-grit paper and Tri-Flow (lube really helps on the paper), and proceeded to carefully polish the circular end of the blade. You also have to get into the small-diameter recess where the rolling lock sits when the knife is closed. The machining in there was anything but polished.

End result: it's actually pretty smooth.

Final opinion on the Rolling Lock: I have no doubt that it's as "strong" as my Axis locks, and it beats any liner lock around, but it's clearly less refined than the Axis. It just doesn't have that butter-on-glass smoothness, due largely (I think) to less-precise machining, a plastic part, and one-sided operation.

The last comment is especially important, and not because I want ambidexterity. The Axis lock is very smooth (and very reliable) because there's equal force exerted on both sides of the locking bar, thanks to the double springs. The Rolling Lock doesn't share this feature.

That said, I consider the Carnie Cub (with my aftermarket mods) one of the ideal sub-3.5" tough folders. For the price, I'd expect better machining, and if I were truly obsessed I might get a Benchmade 710 and grind off half an inch of blade. But that's for next weekend.
 
I agree. The rolling lock is tough, but really doesn't seem to be very refined. I do like my Carnivores, but really prefer the axis lock.

------------------
Dennis Bible

....Almost here, The Leading Edge....
http://www.theleadingedgeonline.com
 
Shmacky,
I havn't tried a rolling lock out yet. I have had a BM 721 and still can't get used to it. It feels like I have to fight the knife to get it open. It is very smoot persay, but there is a certain resistance that I'm still not used to. As for one handed closing, maybe I'm just not doing it right. I can't make it close all the was without changing my grip. Also can't get used to tip up carry. I'm going back to the 750 and shopping for a Carnie Cub.
Just my two cents worth.
recondoc
 
Before you dump your BM altogether (!), try this: instead of putting your thumb on top of the thumbstud, put your thumbnail against the bottom of it. That is, put your thumbnail against the part closest to the point. Kind of like you are about to flick a bottlecap away from you with your thumb. Then do just that: flick the thumbstud up with your thumbnail. This is just one of a dozen easy ways to open an Axis knife.

As for closing, try pulling back the Axis lock with your thumb and index finger--one on each button. Then just gently flick it closed.
 
I have the same problem with my Carnie Cub. I wasn't sure from your post if you had to disassemble your knife to reach the round part of the blade with the sand paper. I'd sure like to smooth out the opening action on my Cub, but I'm not looking forward to taking the knife apart (I can just see the spring rocketing away, never to be found again). Any suggestions?
 
You do, indeed, need to disassemble the knife. It's not hard to do, and not especially hard to put back together. The spring is the tricky part. I strongly suggest doing it inside of a clear plastic bag. Keep in mind that the spring will only go flying once you separate the G10 scale from the steel liner.

I've come to the conclusion that it's totally goofy that I had to do this. Then again, perhaps that's because I just got a Spyderco Lum Chinese folder. Both 3.25", but the QC is night and day.
 
OK, thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try and then let you know how it goes.
 
I've torn-apart 3 of my REKAT folders so far (including one of my 'Cubs) in-order to polish and smooth-out the "action", and I can say that disassembly and re-assembly are both pretty simple and straight-forward. Don't force anything, and take note of how the little stainless *lever (the one that goes between the plastic "slider" and the rolling lock piece) is placed so that you'll be able to put it back together the correct way.

BTW...A little polishing of ALL the parts that move against eachother (including both sides of the *lever) REALLY made a BIG difference in the smoothness of both the opening and closing of the blade, and of the un-locking "slider". (Pay close attention to polishing the "cut-out" in the rolling lock, and also on the top of the blade that rolls against the rolling lock...Polish both of those areas very well, and you will notice a major improvement.).

.:).
 
Dann, I am sure that the way you do it if the correct way to achieve the smoothest end results (Dann did actions on .45's in the army)however, I feel that for the price, the customers should not HAVE TO disassemble the knife and "smoothe out the action".
I have NEVER had to do that with a Spyderco, Benchmade, or even the Cold Steel folders.
This condition does not say much for the Quality Control and workmanship of the manufacturer. They should know that the quality control section of a company is what makes the companies name good or jus ho-hum.
NUF SAID
Ciao
 
I'll second what muzzleup said. I was pretty set on buying a carnie cub but not after reading this thread. I just don't have the time or the skill to do what you guys are talking about. I'll save my time and money and go for something else. Oh well :(
 
I'll third what muzzleup said. I'm clearly capable of doing all this rework for REKAT--I just did it--but why should I have to? Maybe if they sold the parts in a kit for one-third to one-half the price, I'd accept this. But the QC on the most basic Spydercos is far ahead of this higher-end knife.

I really like the handle shape of the Carnie Cub. I think if the knife were properly produced, it'd be the "Denver-legal" (under 3.5") tactical folder. But as things stand, if I'm going to spend this kind of money on a Denver-legal tactical knife and still have to work on it, I'd rather get a BM 710 and take off 1/2" of blade. And if I'm going to spend this kind of money on a Denver-legal tactical knife without working on it, I'll get a Benchmade 721, a Spyderco Gunting, an MOD, or one of any number of knives that don't come packed with G10 grit and unfinished parts.

This is my first and last REKAT. I can't think of any reason to get another. The only knife they make that has no real equivalent is the SIFU, but even if I lived in California, where SIFUs are legal, I'd opt for something else.
 
Well, I got mine apart without any problems, but in my case I found that the roughness apparently depends not so much on the blade as on the rolling pin itself. I found the rolling pin to be poorly designed and/or machined: the pin has sharp edges that scrape against the blade while opening, plus the seating of the blade is uneven. I tried to smooth the pin out, but without much results; it's a job that requires more than just a good sandpapering. This kind of tees me off. Why on earth doesn't Rekat do something about this? It sure wouldn't take much effort on their part to fix this kind of problem. I just don't have enough time (nor, I fear, sufficient expertise)to fiddle with knives that, given their cost, should be perfect out of the box. I am definitely not going to be buying any more Rekats!
 
Maybe this thread should be moved to the REKAT Forum so that they can see, (and answer) the problems mentioned here? (IF they ever even check their REKAT Forum anymore...:(.).
 
POO! :(
the rekat carnie was love at first sight for me - and was one of the first tactical folders I got.. heck one of the first knives I got that I still have... it feels so good in the hand and rivals the KFF. as much as I am a fan the QC really gets to me (I had to go thru two knives.. there were fit and grind probems).. if you don't like disassembling yoru knife you can do what I did.. work it for 8 months and natural wear and tear will get it smooth :)

but yeah I woudl like to see what a SMOOTH rekat feels like. -always hopefull...
 
I have a Pioneer 1 that I bought on the forums. Had just been to the REKAT factory for replacement of the spring. I have lubed that thing with TufGlide up the yingyang, and it is about half as gritty as when I got it. (At first, wasn't lubing exactly the right place.)

Have also worked and worked and worked the action. It still feels like there is something wrong in the action. I know the knife is a tough little brute, feels solid as possible. But darn it, the previous owner felt the need to Dremel the edges of some micarta and a bit of metal, to make sure things lined up. And, for the finale, it is the hardest blade to sharpen I've ever seen. My 440V Native is much easier to sharpen. Haven't needed to sharpen other ATS34s yet, but I gotta tell ya, this one is a doozy.

I was about set to buy a Carnivore. Had decided that was "THE" folder to get. THen bought a Timberline Wortac. The handle just doesn't fit my hand at all. Since the Carnivore looks so similar, and is designed by the same designer, given the troubles of my Pioneer, I immediately decided no more REKAT folders for me. Got a Fang, which I really like, but the sheath is way too loose. Gonna bake it soon.

Furthermore -- just a little -- I've read the REKAT forum quite a bit. The lack of participation/involvement by the company, plus their never finished web site tell me its a pretty low class operation all around. I'm with Spyderco now, and very happy.
 
I'm the first to agree REKAT has QC problems and general PR problems in general. No one has heard from them in months at the forums and yes the web page still isn't done.

Oh yeah, and they have not shipped a new knife in ages.

Wih that said, my Carni, Carni Cub and Pioneer II are the 3 knives I reach for when I'm going to be doing things that I know may damage them or screw up their appearance. (e.g. Rolling around under the car on a Saturday afternoon can make my sebbie's look a little rough)

I love the lock, their heat treat on the ATS 34 is excellent so they take and hold a great edge, and their built like a tank.

I have had most of mine open at one point or another to fix blade lockup or grittyness, but when they're broken in the are pretty smooth. It'll never be as smooth as a rolling lock or lockback or liner or [insert lock mechanism here]. The reason is that you have a bar of steel that has no spring action that is rolling across another piece of steel. Both piece are fixed in place so they rub harder than other locks.

I like the Rolling Lock a touch more than the Axis lock, but I only have one Axis lock because benchmade has not proven to be capable of designing a knife style I like lately (705/710 excluded). And I won't even mention their QC problems.

Bottom line, if you buy a REKAT expect it to be rougher than most other quality folders you have, it's the nature of the lock. If you get one that is good, it'll be a great knife and you can beat the SHI* out of it.:D
 
I just finished the same operation on my Cub. First let me say that I'm not extremely mechanically inclined. I take apart things I don't care about for fun, but I only take apart things I do care about if there's a really good reason. I think this is the third knife I've taken apart (the first was a Camillus EDC, and the second was my Sifu, but I only took that half way apart). Okay, first, it's a good idea to have a little dish or tray around to put little parts into, that way they don't roll away. And keep a flashlight within reaching distance, that way when you drop a tiny piece on the floor you can first grab the flashlight and shine it on the floor, before moving your chair and feet which could crush, hide, or move that little piece. Even if the room is well lit, the flashlight helps focus your vision on one particular spot and makes things easier to find (ever see LEO's search a car or whatever during daylight and use their flashlight anyway?). Ok, disassembly and reassembly were relatively easy and straightforward. The spring didn't shoot across the room (like my Sifu's did) because it was still glued in. It was wise of REKAT to put that glue there, but they should have used a stronger glue. When I took the Cub apart I noticed rust on the liners. Not a lot, and it was concentrated around the traction grooves and screw holes, but still - rust! I got this knife in on trade so I don't know what kind of conditions it had been through before I got it, but, AFAIK, rust on my folders is very rare. So I started with 600 grit sandpaper. I polished the base of the tang and both sides of both liners, the lever (as well as I could), the pivot pin, and the locking pin (but not enough, I don't think). Then I went to do the sides of the tang of the blade, i.e., the part of the blade that rubs against the washers, and it was not a large leap from there to the flat part of the rest of the blade. So my Cub's blade is now two tone - the stonewash on the ground parts and somewhere between satin and mirror on the flats. An attractive improvement IMO. After sanding everything I went at it with Flitz felt pads loaded with Metal Glo, then washed it all in soap and water, and applied Marine Tuff Cloth thickly to the liners and all other metal parts. Result - way smoother than it was, but still not smooth like my AFCK or Axis locks. I don't know if I didn't polish the locking bar enough or if that's just the nature of the beast. I can see that we really shouldn't have to do this, but it was also a lot of fun. I can't decide whether or not to do the same to my Sifu. It's plenty smooth, and the two tone would look great, but would remove the "REKAT D2 Enhanced Patent #" which I don't really want to do. Smooth or rough, the Cub is a great knife and I intend to beat it senseless. Yes REKAT QC could use some improvement, but I still really like their knives.
 
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