Reloading for M1A - attempt #2

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Bowie Mike

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Sep 30, 2006
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I didn't see any responses in practical/tactical so....

Hi Guys - I need your help with reloading for an M1A.

I'm relatively new to reloading, but have some experience from a long time ago. Anyway, I am curious if anyone has reloaded using bullets without the crimping ring (the groove in the bullet for crimping the brass).

Is it safe to use bullets without the crimping ring.

Thanks
 
When reloading ammo for a semi-auto rifle like the M1A you will probably be better off if you stick to bullets with a cannelure or crimping groove. You should probably also use small base dies to completely resize your cases as far down as possible. Lee's collet type factory crimp die might be a good idea, too. Be sure you are using the powder type and quantity suitable for matching the pressure curve necessary to operate your rifle reliably but without undue wear and tear on the mechanism. Consult a good up-to-date reference for data suited to that particular model rifle.
 
I have handloaded for 17 years, and loaded thousands of rounds. I have loaded lots of rifle rounds and pistol rounds both. I will repeat what Dr. Mudd has said. Get a very good reloading manual and stick with the advice that it gives.
It is very safe to use a bullet without the groove if that is what the manual calls for. I have loaded thousands of rifle rounds with smooth jackets, HOWEVER, your questions seems to indicate you would be using this in the M1A.
The best info I could find was in Lyman's 48th manual. They advise that the best bullets to use are spitzers between 150 and 168 grains as the gas systems of the M1 are designed for military ammo which weighed 152 or 173.
The reason for a crimp is pretty much two-fold. Some slower burning powders need the heavy crimp to burn properly. The second is even more important. In a heavy recoiling gun, the bullets, if not propery crimped, can worked back into the loaded case, spiking pressure. Ask me about THAT sometime!:D
The flip side is bullets that do not have the "crimp groove" deform when crimped, and you loose accuracy by shooting deformed bullets (serria bullets and lee reloading got into a squabble over this).
 
My brother has found that the best bullet for a non-magnum .30 cal are the 165 gr models. He loads his 30-06's with 165 Sierra Game Kings (premium bullet that gives you 95%+ of the perfromance of the exotics in standard velocity guns at half the price or less) and 180 gr Nosler Partitions in his .300WSM. I would think that the Sierra would be very good for an M1A as the military has been known in the past to use a version of the mid-weight Match King, sans hollow tip, for their sniper rifles.
 
The 165 grain bullet allows you to switch to a slower burning powder than powders used for loads behind the 150. The result is the 165 gr can be launched at the same speeds as the 150. The payoff is in the 200 - 300 yard range as the 165 gr will have more ft. lbs of energy.
 
charlieridge said:
The 165 grain bullet allows you to switch to a slower burning powder than powders used for loads behind the 150. The result is the 165 gr can be launched at the same speeds as the 150. The payoff is in the 200 - 300 yard range as the 165 gr will have more ft. lbs of energy.
Click to expand...
And those Sierra boat tails are slippery little suckers too :thumbup::D I know that with a properly handloaded 30-06. you don't start seeing a major drop in velocity until you try to go heavier than 180gr, but my recollection is that with the .308, 165 is a darn good starting AND stopping point for bullet weight.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone.

I am using a new Speers reloading manual and searched the web for advice on the subject. I think my powder and bullet weights are ok, I'm just a little worried that the relatively heavy semi-auto action will start shifting the bullets around in the casings.

I'm having a difficult time finding bullets with the crimping groove in my area (at a decent price).

Has anybody actually shot bullets without a crimping groove from their M1A.

Thanks
 
Ok, found more info for you Mike. "Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading" sixth edition, has specific info on reloading the M1 Garand. Out of six Hornady bullets listed for the M1, only one has the "bullet groove". Out of the six, Hornady recommends 155 and 178grain A-MAX and the 168 Boat Tail Hollow Point. None of these bullets have the groove for crimping. I have a couple of Speer manuals, but I don't know if they offer specific advice for the M1. Spend the extra money and invest in a manual that has the info for M1. I currently have around 12!
 
Thanks Action, thanks for the extra effort Charlie.

I am using RCBS dies and press. The crimping definately didn't work without the cannelure. Big problems with the casing sticking in the chamber, inertia (I think) from the semi-auto action pushed the bullets back into the casing on a couple of rounds causing a light strike on the primer (ie no bang) - I think the casing just got pushed forward when firing pin hit?.

On a recommendation from a guy at the range, I tried using a reamer to thin the inside and outside of the neck (just at the lip), and then crimping it. It held tight, but was still hanging up in the chamber. The casings were the correct length and compared with factory ammo that shoots just fine.

All my factory 223 and 308 ammo has the cannelure and it all shoot just fine. Now I just need to return the 500 rounds of spitzers without the cannelure. Hopefully they will take them back.

Charlie - you already did the research, what are the referenced for loading for the M1A.

Thanks!
 
Bowie Mike
Below is a link on reloading for the M1 RIFLE & M1-A very good info to have (note section on slam fires)I carried an M-14 AT Parris Island when I was a young Marine recruit and saw a slam fire on the rifle range, no damage to the rifle but the bolt drew blood from the shooters thumb. When reloading be very careful to fully seat primers and watch overall length of cartridge. Civilian primers are also much easier to set off. another thing you mentioned was rounds sticking in the chamber, if you are reloading military brass (7.62 NATO) the brass is thicker than 308 and my not fit back in the chamber when reloaded unless you neck turn the case before reloading.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm
 
Bowie Mike said:
...
Big problems with the casing sticking in the chamber, inertia (I think) from the semi-auto action pushed the bullets back into the casing on a couple of rounds causing a light strike on the primer (ie no bang)
Click to expand...

The .308 headspaces on the cartridge shoulder. Cases sticking in the chamber sound like you need to fully resize the cases.

Misfires may be a matter of the rifle not actually being fully in battery (action not all the way closed) or, if you have full length re-sized, then the cases have a short shoulder and are falling into the chamber.

Touching off a round out of battery is difficult, (the rifle's design is intended to preclude this possibility.) But it is not totally impossible. When it happens you'll know it.

More insidious is the situation where you are forming the shoulder to far back and still able to fire the round. The shortened case will expand upon firing to fill the entire chamber. That small amounts of expansion, not subsequently repeated would likely go unnoticed. But keep reloading, and re-firing such rounds and the brass will get progressively thinner and weaker and then one day one of those cases will fail. When that happens you (or your heirs) will no longer own a rifle, but instead a collection of (damaged) rifle bits/parts.

Overall length is but one aspect of a properly formed round, you really should be checking case length after re-sizing, then trimming to proper length (if necessary) prior to re-loading. Case chamfering (especially on the inside of the neck) is a good idea when taper crimping, when roll crimping it becomes a fine art - done wrong it can be worse than not being done at all.

I've never specifically loaded for the M1A, but have loaded both .308 and .30-06 for the FAL and Garand respectively and since I was not loading battle ammo I used a taper crimp.

When loading for sport purposes you do not need a roll crimp. A taper crimp may be used, as long as you understand its limitations, and sometimes it will give you better accuracy. Charlieridge mentioned the two absolute reasons for using a roll crimp. Those are the main reasons you need a roll crimp in a revolver and/or anything with a tube magazine.

Even with heavy recoil a taper crimp can be acceptable, else all .375 H&H ammo (to use one example) would come with a roll crimp (and alot of it doesn't.) Given enough bullet-to-case contact the friction of a taper crimp can withstand alot of recoil without bullet shift.
 
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[quote="actiondiver, post: 5410991"]If you get a Lee "factory crimp" die you will not need bullets that have an existing cannelure.[/QUOTE]

I don't wish to argue with anyone here, and LEE reloading has enabled alot of people to get started do to lower priced equipment, however, the LEE factory crimp die is one of the more questionable pieces of equipment developed. There are bullet manafactures that will not stand by their bullets if used with a LEE "factory crimp die". Speer and LEE placed advertisements against each other over the "factory crimp die". On a bullet without a cannelure, the die deforms the jackect of the bullet. A deformed bullet reduces reliability and function.
I don't care how LEE advertises the "factory crimp die". If I felt I needed one I would strickly limit use to bullets with canneures only.
 
Sorry it took me so long to respond.

Thank you for the detailed information and considerations. The link on reloading for semi-autos is great.

TDalgren - I've checked the casing lengths and they were near perfect. This lead me to the crimping/cannelure issue. I now have bullets with a cannelure and they now crimp down tight and seem to chamber just fine. I haven't fired any yet though - been out of town.

Again, thanks for the info guys.

Mike
 
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