Removable scales

Robert Erickson

Robert Erickson

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
2,892
I've had a request to make a blade with removable scales. My BF search turned up using Torx screws. I've found some for folders but none long enough for full tang fixed blades.
Where have you guys gotten them long enough?
 
I'd recommend using "normal" screws/bolts. Like phillips or flat head. Much easier for the customer to put on and take off in the field if necessary. Most people don't have Torx bits.

Just my $.02.
 
DFCustomKnives said:
I'd recommend using "normal" screws/bolts. Like phillips or flat head. Much easier for the customer to put on and take off in the field if necessary. Most people don't have Torx bits.

Just my $.02.
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Yes, and that could lead to better marketing. Being able to remove screws with a quarter in an emergency situation or whatever.
 
I disagree on using Philips and slot head bolts. The Torx or Allen head bolts/screws are more professional looking, and will stay in good shape longer. Also, no one would likely need to disassemble a knife handle in the field. Torx head driver bits are in most multi-tip hex drive packs. and they are available from most tool places. Most folks who work with knives and guns enough to request a removable handle probably already have them, anyway.

On autos with the speed adjustment being the pivot tension, I give the owner the proper size Torx bit to fit the pivot. It costs me about a buck, and assures the owner will adjust the tension as it wears in. A complete torx driver set for knife work costs about $7. I have given those away with a knife too.

You don't need, or want long screws. You put inserts in the tang that the screws fit. The insert is what the scales fit on, and the screws lock the scales down snug. The insert is the strength bearing part. When fitted right, the insert comes up almost to the head seat of the hole in the handle - .250" long screws are plenty long enough for any knife.

Several of the knife suppliers who deal with folder parts sell the screws in several metal, head types, and sizes. Knifekits.com has a lot. I find that 4-40 and 6-32 work well. You can get the tang inserts from them, too.
 
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I disagree on using Philips and slot head bolts. The Torx or Allen head bolts/screws are more professional looking, and will stay in good shape longer. Also, no one would likely need to disassemble a knife handle in the field. Torx head driver bits are in most multi-tip hex drive packs. and they are available from most tool places. Most folks who work with knives and guns enough to request a removable handle probably already have them, anyway.

On autos with the speed adjustment being the pivot tension, I give the owner the proper size Torx bit to fit the pivot. It costs me about a buck, and assures the owner will adjust the tension as it wears in. A complete torx driver set for knife work costs about $7. I have given those away with a knife too.

You don't need, or want long screws. You put inserts in the tang that the screws fit. The insert is what the scales slip on, and the screws lock the scales down snug. The insert is the strength bearing part. When fitted right, the insert comes up almost to the head seat of the hole in the handle - .250" long screws are plenty long enough for any knife.

Several of the knife suppliers who deal with folder parts sell the screws in several metal, head types, and sizes. Knifekits.com has a lot. I find that 4-40 and 6-32 work well. You can get the tang inserts from them, too.
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Yeah, but at a certain point would you rather sell what's not the best or not sell the best?

People like the stupid idea that zombies may attack and when it happens they may need to remove scales to clean the knife. Is it stupid? Yeah. Is it something Joe Blow wants? Also yes.
 
bodog said:
People like the stupid idea that zombies may attack and when it happens they may need to remove scales to clean the knife.
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^ that's dumb

Some people want to store something under the scales in a skeletonized tang to be used in a in-the-field situation. In that case you'd want something you can unscrew with a coin. But it's not a firearm with moving parts that needs to be maintained in-the-field.


For most folks, Allen head works well. Most folks have Allen keys. You can use round internally threaded electrical standoffs as pins and allen head cap screws of various kinds.
 
I agree with Stacy. Standard and phillips heads are much more likely to get bunged up and lead to damaging the scales if someone slips. Like Nathan said, most folks have an allen key set so that's a pretty good alternative.
 
I guess I should've said to begin with, as someone who might like removable scales, I'd rather have button head hex screws in a common size as long as they're fully nested in the handle.

What appeals to a lot of people is the idea of easy maintenance in the field given the sparsest selection of tools available regardless of the actual necessity of it.

Personally I wouldnt want removable scales on a fixed blade knife. I'd rather have the epoxy coating the tang from a practical standpoint.

Like nathan said, I can only imagine someone wanting removable scales on a fixed blade if they're storing something under them, a la esee laser strike, or if they're planning on swapping scales. If the purpose is storing stuff under the scales or cleaning the knife then I'd go with flathead screws, if it's scale swapping I'd rather have hex or torx, preferably hex.
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
^ that's dumb

Some people want to store something under the scales in a skeletonized tang to be used in a in-the-field situation. In that case you'd want something you can unscrew with a coin. But it's not a firearm with moving parts that needs to be maintained in-the-field.


For most folks, Allen head works well. Most folks have Allen keys. You can use round internally threaded electrical standoffs as pins and allen head cap screws of various kinds.
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See what I mean?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...emovable-handle-scales-on-the-TOPS-Knives-MSK
 
The Torx or Allen head look to be the way to go for me. I think they'll be less likely to strip and the wrenches are cheap as Stacy stated.
 
If the tang is thick enough, probably at least 3/16", you could just tap the tang, instead of using stand offs. I haven't tried stand offs yet, so I can't comment on which is better.
 
Glad you asked this question for me because I've been wanting to try out removable handles myself. Super glad to know about Jephco that Sbuzek shared, they look like a solid place to buy knife hardware. Share some pics once you get it all figured out.
 
Jeff is good people,veteran owned and every thing is made right here in Texas.
 
I have always wondered how do you shape a handle that is going to have removable scales and bolt? wouldn't you end up grinding the screw heads of and such?
 
What I was planning to do is to attach the scales with sacrificial corby bolts and then do the final attachment with the Torx screws. Maybe there's a better way?
 
You attach the handle with sacrificial screws. Watch them as you get to the final sanding so you don't grind the tops off. They should be sort of depth control indicators. Once the handle is sanded and buffed, remove the handle and do the final blade etch and whatever else is needed, and then re-assemble with the final screws. I like the gold plated screws, or the black oxide coated ones.
 
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I use 18-8 stainless steel screws with a black oxide coating and electrical standoffs. You want the standoff length sized so the screws almost bottom out against them when installed to maximize the support the pins provide the scales. I keep 1/4" diameter standoffs from 3/16" to 5/8" length in 1/16" increments. Remember it is the pins, not the screws, that create shear strength. The screws just hold the scales down, the pins do most of the works.

I use a small drop of blue (removable) Loctite thread locker on the screw threads during assembly. Take care not to get the thread locker on the scales, it isn't good for them, it soaks in and can problems in the future.

For best results the pins should be a snug fit to the scales and the tang. Done properly things won't shift around in hard use or if dropped. I aim for no clearance to the scales and a total diameter clearance of .001" to the tang which requires reaming and sizing the standoffs. If you can't control the slop you can use oversize holes in the tang and bed the standoffs to the tang with acraglas during assembly to prevent them from being able to shift around in the future.
 
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