Removable Scales

[james terrio]

Let me start by saying all my own designs incorporate both chemical and mechanical fasteners, whether full or hidden tang. Although I trust Corbies, chain-ring bolts, Loveless screws and peened/flared pins or tubes to hold the thing together, I want the epoxy in there if for no other reason than to keep moisture out from between the tang and scale.

However, occasionally I get a custom order that specifies removable scales. Usually this entails a rehandle job on a factory knife that had remo scales to begin with (such as many Beckers and similarly-constructed knives) where the client wants the option of replacing the originals. Again, usually these knives have some manner of powdercoat on the entire blade and tang, so this doesn't bother me.

But what if the tang isn't powdercoated? A full-custom order I'm working on now is bare ElMax; but we all know that "stainless" can and will rust eventually. This is a woods/survival type knife and will surely see humid and even wet conditions. In another thread, Brian mentioned beeswax:

I read an article in Knives Illustrated some years ago about PJ Tomes and his stag handled knives. When it came to fixed blade, full tangs, he would put bees wax on the tangs to prevent rust and rely solely on spun rivets, to hold the stag scales in place. Maybe bees wax would work on a knife with removeable scales? A little OT but just an idea.
Brian

Now, that's pretty interesting, but it raised some questions about hot summer days and gooey handles. So I'm wondering, would RenWax hold up better to heat? What about Turtle Wax? Any other ideas?

One little brainstorm I've been mulling over is to cut "liners" out of something squishy but waterproof like neoprene, and affix that permanently to the scale as a gasket, but I haven't tried that.

 

[Carl_First_Timer]

One little brainstorm I've been mulling over is to cut "liners" out of something squishy but waterproof like neoprene, and affix that permanently to the scale as a gasket, but I haven't tried that.

I was thinking this right when I started reading your post. Keep us in the loop on this i have been interested as well.

 

[Carl_First_Timer]

On second thought what about assembling the scales. Masking the blade. remove the scales. Then painting with a rust-o-leum type clear enamel.

 

[Justin King]

I can think of a lot of possibilities but I wouldn't trust any of them without some testing first. A good paint or primer comes immediately to mind but I have seen enough painted steel where the paint is flaking off from rust that has formed underneath, that I wouldn't trust it, either. Probably the most obvious answer is that if the fit-up isn't sealed and permanently assembled, then the tang becomes an area that is subject to routine maintenece, but I know that isn't what most customers want to hear.

Edit: I misread your "gasket" idea and replied with foot in mouth:foot:, content removed... that idea might work!

 

[tryppyr]

Personally, I would worry that neoprene (or any other squishy material) would simply trap moisture, not block its entry.

Have you considered clear coat? It's not a surface treament you'd want on an exposed surface, but since the scales would prevent abrasive wear on the tang anyway, the clear coat would simply be a thin, heat/cold resistant moisture barrier that had the added avdantage of allowing the metal underneath to be seen when the scales were removed.

- Greg

 

[james terrio]

Interesting ideas, gentlemen, thank you! Please keep them coming.

Personally, I would worry that neoprene (or any other squishy material) would simply trap moisture, not block its entry.

I'm pretty sure that's an oxymoron, my friend. How could a proper gasket allow moisture into the joint, yet somehow trap it there?

I base my question/theory on many years experience operating/maintaining/repairing industrial machinery... when any joining surfaces were well-fitted and clean to begin with and had an appropriate gasket, upon tear-down they are by far the cleanest, prettiest, most rust-free surfaces on the whole dang machine. That's the entire point of a gasket

 

[tryppyr]

I'm full of oxymorons!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

My thoughts would be to use a thin gasket. If you really were worried about rust, seat the gasket with Permatex gasket seal between it and the tang, and then bolt down the scales. The scales will be removable, and the gasket will stay in place until scraped off. Thin red/black gasket material will look like red or black liners.

Actually we are probably over-thinking this, I don't see why you couldn't use vulcanized liner material to do this with Permatex or epoxy, and just don't epoxy the scales to the liners.

 

[james terrio]

I don't see why you couldn't use vulcanized liner material to do this with Permatex or epoxy, and just don't epoxy the scales to the liners.

Only because I've had swelling/shrinking problems with vulcanized liner material, and seen unused pieces warp twist and curl with changes in the weather. That makes me think it doesn't resist moisture as well as I would like.

 

[kc custom]

James do the handle with a release agent wax, whatever, coat the inside of the scale with
a rubber type compound like geocel install and let dry. Remove the scale trim and clean the
release agent off the tang, now reinstall. Gasket big time. The reason I say use Geocel is I
have a lot more faith in an elastomeric than simple silicone.
Ken.

 

[JBS TOOLMAKER]

James,
Fit your scales, and finish it up like normal. Mask the blade right up to the edge of the scales. Remove scales and apply gunkote or something similar.Re attach scales and you are done. This works well and won't hurt your fit and finish. I think any type of gasket would stick out and look bad. I had a customer about a year ago who wanted removable scales and a tumble finish on the blade, at first I refused to do it. I came up with this
and it's still working great. Also think about the fit on your sheath, replacing a gasket might effect the fit.

 

[ERIK KNIVES]

Another simplistic possibility - Tell the customer to remove the scales every month and polish the knife with Flitz Knife and Gun Polish. He wants removable scales, so he should have no problem removing them once in a while.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

James,
If the liners are put on with Permatex gasket seal, I doubt they would ever move or absorb moisture. If that is a worry, use gasket material and Permatex. That will never move or absorb anything.

 

[james terrio]

He wants removable scales, so he should have no problem removing them once in a while.

Of course you're right; I'm just paranoid.

Ken, which Geocel product do you like? They have about a thousand different types on their site

Great answers from all of you, thanks again! Looks like I have some experimenting to do

 

[kc custom]

James I buy it local in a caulk tube at our local fleet farm, white tube brown writing
with the word Geocel on it. At menards its usually a black tube- read it and it will say
if its an elastomeric compound or not.
Ken.