Removing dye from bone or redyeing?

I know this will sound silly, but this is the type of thread that brings out some of the best of this forum. Thinking out of the box, inventive ideas, and actually trying them out for a "proof in the putting" set of pics.

I have dyed wood for years (as a wood turner and woodworker) but it NEVER occured to me to try bone or plastic. Excellent.

Great thread, great job Jamesbeat.

Robert
 
Thanks guys.
I'm actually working on a tutorial for this, I have the text written but no photos yet.
I am going to order some knives (just for scientific purposes you understand :)) and take plenty of photos before, during and after the process.
Hopefully the mods will make it a sticky.

Coyote 711, I'm so glad I could help, your knife looks awesome now!
It's like having a whole new knife isn't it?

I was concerned that some manufacturers might use a wax or sealant of some kind on their bone which would prevent this process from working.
Thanks to you, we can now add Case to the list of successful attempts (black bone CV peanut anyone?)

So far we have had success with knives from:
Case
Rough Rider
Boker Magnum Bonsai
Steel Warrior
 
Coyote 711, I forgot to ask, which brand of dye did you use?
I've only tried Tintex, because that's what my local drugstore happened to have, but it would be nice to know which other brands work.
 
jamesbeat said:
Coyote 711, I'm so glad I could help, your knife looks awesome now!
It's like having a whole new knife isn't it?
Click to expand...

Thanks again! It's absolutely like having a whole new knife! I couldn't believe it was that simple - so I had to try it for myself!

My knife started out as Amber Bone. I like natural bone, so a few months ago I decided to experiment and try to get rid of the amber coloring. Dabs of bleach with a Q-tip. Lightly sanding the bone. Using very fine diamond files to abrade the recesses in the bone. Nothing worked to my satisfaction, or even close. I had an ugly knife on my hands. :(

I also happen to like black scales - kinda old timey and just plain simple. Tried a black magic marker to see what it would look like - I liked it. Washed it off and tried the leather dye, figuring that would penetrate better. It didn't. Now I had a very ugly knife on my hands. :eek:

Knife sits out out of my view for a couple months, so as not to remind me of my failed experiment. :yawn:

Fast forward to the other day when I saw your post. Heck, it's worth a try - can't screw it up any more ..... besides, I'll never carry it looking this way! Run into town and get some dye, scrounge an old pan from my wife, and get to cookin'. It freakin' worked!!! I've got a new knife!!! It really was that simple!

Jamesbeat, making a tutorial sounds like a wonderful idea, and I do hope the mods will make it a sticky! Once again, my hat's off to you for "giving" me a new knife! :thumbup:
 
jamesbeat said:
Coyote 711, I forgot to ask, which brand of dye did you use?
I've only tried Tintex, because that's what my local drugstore happened to have, but it would be nice to know which other brands work.
Click to expand...

I used liquid Rit. I wanted black, but they (w'mart) didn't have any black - powder or liquid. I was too impatient to run all over town looking for black dye (I didn't know who else might carry fabric dye) - besides, I wanted to get home and get to boilin'!

Anyway, the closest they had to black was Navy Blue, in liquid only, so that's what I got. Indoors and under artificial light it's pretty close to looking black. Outdoors and in just the right (or wrong) sunlight it has a purplish cast to it. I'm going to keep my eye out for black, though. ;)
 
The beauty of it is, I found I didn't even need to use an old pan. The dy washes right off metal, which is good considering we don't want any other parts of the knife dyed...
Initial results with a dog bone look encouraging.
I dyed it black using the same batch of dye, and only for 5 minutes, then sawed it in half.
The dye penetrated very well (ie jet black) for about 0.5mm, and there was some penetration (purplish) for about 3mm.
I imagine that fresh dye simmered for longer would give much better penetration.
 
coyote711 said:
I used liquid Rit. I wanted black, but they (w'mart) didn't have any black - powder or liquid. I was too impatient to run all over town looking for black dye (I didn't know who else might carry fabric dye) - besides, I wanted to get home and get to boilin'!

Anyway, the closest they had to black was Navy Blue, in liquid only, so that's what I got. Indoors and under artificial light it's pretty close to looking black. Outdoors and in just the right (or wrong) sunlight it has a purplish cast to it. I'm going to keep my eye out for black, though. ;)
Click to expand...

Ok, so we know that liquid Rit (and probably Rit powder) work then.
From what I have read, the material you're dyeing can only absorb so much dye. Dyeing black over blue may not be as successful as using black from the outset, although I imagine it will be ok.
 
jamesbeat said:
I was concerned that some manufacturers might use a wax or sealant of some kind on their bone which would prevent this process from working.
Thanks to you, we can now add Case to the list of successful attempts (black bone CV peanut anyone?)

So far we have had success with knives from:
Case
Rough Rider
Boker Magnum Bonsai
Steel Warrior
Click to expand...

I'm concerned about that, too. I've been eyeing a GEC Northfield Courthouse Whittler in what looks to be an extremely ugly "Spring Green" color - I'd love to have it in black! I wish I knew if they somehow treat the bone on these, and if so, if it would prevent the dye from penetrating, or result in a patchy uneven finish. It's one thing to experiment on a relatively inexpensive knife, but I'm a little leery of trying it on a more expensive knife.
 
I'd be inclined to try it.
I think at the very worst, any coating would be a simple wax type polish and could be stripped easily if it looked like the bone wasn't absorbing the dye.
From my failed dyeing experiments, I'm pretty sure that bone isn't very absorbent, so it follows that any coating they may have applied would be on the very surface only.
Also, when I was messing around with that canoe and solvents, the jigging got a white haze in the hollows, exactly like a wax that had been attacked by the solvent.
I'm pretty confident that a wipe down (or short soak) with acetone and then simmering in dye would dye any bone, but that of course is just an educated guess.
 
TMK, the bone used for knife scales is only dyed, as the knife is finished with the scales in place. At most, the knives may be waxed when finished.
 
Good points there, and I follow your logic. I remember reading somewhere that GEC stabilizes their Stag and Primitive Bone handles. I'm not sure what that means, and also not sure if they do it on their standard (not Primitive) bone handles. Might it somehow involve forcing, under great pressure or at great temperature, some type of liquid into the bone/stag? Or is it just something surface applied? I don't know the answers of course, but it gives me pause when considering buying an expensive ugly knife, when I wouldn't buy it otherwise.

I see Bill DeShivs has added a point here that backs up what you are saying, jamesbeat. I've kinda overspent my knife budget for a while, so this may have to wait a month or two, but I'm inclined to go ahead and give it a try when finances permit.
 
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Would it be worth emailing GEC and asking them if they use stabilized bone?
Bill has it right, you can tell that the scales are usually finished on the knife because the ends usually get lighter as they get thinner in profile near the bolsters, ie the bone is ground away exposing areas less penetrated by the dye.
I suppose it would be possible to stabilize bone, but bone is much denser than wood, so I expect it's a pretty difficult process and it would seem rather pointless unless some characteristic of a particular type of bone required it.

Having said that, what would happen if the bone was stabilized?
It may mean that the bone would be completely unaffected by the dye, in which case you could (unethically) return the knife or (ethically) sell it to a forum member, explaining that you tried unsuccessfully to dye it.
 
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jamesbeat said:
Would it be worth emailing GEC and asking them if they use stabilized bone?
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Outstanding idea! :thumbup: I just emailed them, after reading your suggestion, asking that question and if they knew of any reason why I couldn't dye their bone. I'll post their response here when received.
 
Just to throw something else into the mix, Tintex, Rit etc make a 'color remover'.
I looked up the ingredients, and it's not a bleach.
It works by turning insoluble dyes into water soluble metal salts, ie it will dissolve and carry away any dye it comes into contact with.
Treatment is similar to the dyeing method, simmer for a while in the solution.

I expect it's too much to ask for it to completely remove all dye from a piece of bone (though not beyond the realm of possibility) but even if it simply faded the dye, it could open up a lot of new color options when dyeing.

From what I gather, it also better prepares the material to be dyed, so it might make a good pre-dye treatment for bone too.

I'll pick some up and give it a go once I get some more knives to experiment on.

The only drawback to this thing is that I no longer have any 'beater' knives to experiment on.
Now I have discovered how to dye bone, I simply do not posses any knives I don't like :D
 
Here's the response I rec'd from GEC concerning dyeing their regular bone:


From: "Chris Tucker" <sales@greateasterncutlery.net>
Date: July 11, 2011 6:13:36 AM CDT
To: Keith
Subject: RE: Enquiry from Great Eastern Cutlery Online Store

Dear Keith,

I really don't know for sure but I would think you could, although just
remember that if you change our knife in any way the warranty will be
voided.

Chris
 
Doesn't really surprise me, apparently dying the scales represents a grave and immediate threat to the knife itself. Was actually one of the concerns I have about my spyderco, I probably already voided the warranty by removing it from the packaging materials.
 
Sounds encouraging, he didn't mention stabilizing or anything.
My guess would be that they don't do anything different to their bone than other manufacturers. It would be an extra step in the manufacturing process, and a solution to a problem that doesn't appear to exist, ie bone is already sufficiently stable without treatment.
I think that if they performed an extra step to stabilize the bone, they'd probably boast about it in their advertising.

I had a look at the knife in question, and it really is very nice apart from the color.
If it were me, I'd see it as a pretty safe gamble and give it a go.
 
jamesbeat said:
Sounds encouraging, he didn't mention stabilizing or anything.
My guess would be that they don't do anything different to their bone than other manufacturers. It would be an extra step in the manufacturing process, and a solution to a problem that doesn't appear to exist, ie bone is already sufficiently stable without treatment.
I think that if they performed an extra step to stabilize the bone, they'd probably boast about it in their advertising.

I had a look at the knife in question, and it really is very nice apart from the color.
If it were me, I'd see it as a pretty safe gamble and give it a go.
Click to expand...

I think the logic you expressed above is 100% spot on! (Now I just have to wait until my knife fund is re-built). :rolleyes:
 
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