Removing rust from steel liners

In the second picture there must be mineral oil on the liner that's causing a reflection. It looks like the liner is all chewed up but it's not!

Here she is in all her glory:

P1000572.JPG


Thanks again for everyone's suggestions.
 
Keep the knife CLEAN and DRY, first and foremost. Mineral oil can't, by itself, speed up rusting issues UNLESS the oil is trapping dirt, salt, acids or moisture against the steel. Same holds true with any other oil or 'protectant'. Mineral oil is completely non-reactive (chemically inert), so it isn't capable of causing rust by itself.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Keep the knife CLEAN and DRY, first and foremost. Mineral oil can't, by itself, speed up rusting issues UNLESS the oil is trapping dirt, salt, acids or moisture against the steel. Same holds true with any other oil or 'protectant'. Mineral oil is completely non-reactive (chemically inert), so it isn't capable of causing rust by itself.


David
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You are describing it in more technical detail than my limited understanding of science can summarize, but ultimately the end results are generally the same: in some cases, surfaces treated with mineral oil sometimes rust faster than the same surfaces that are just washed and dried. To my [limited] understanding, the scientific reasoning of mineral oil is generally under the basis of displacing oxygen and water and hence slowing the process of oxidation. As you noted, it lacks others additives and other particles expedite oxidation. However, it is almost impossible to avoid these on a knife that lives in a pocket, goes all over the place, and is used for almost anything in a world where there are particles in the air which in and of themselves can expedite rusting. And as a wet lubricant, it suffers from the issue of accumulation, with no additive to interfere otherwise. Even if someone can keep it clean and free from accumulation, it evaporates at a rate that limits its practicality greatly. Even on cutting boards it tends to evaporate really quickly and so quickly that I've moved to a cream that is part mineral oil and part beeswax for a little better longevity.
 
Mineral oil doesn't promote rusting. It doesn't evaporate quickly, either. The main lubricant in most oils is mineral oil.
 
pnsxyr said:
You are describing it in more technical detail than my limited understanding of science can summarize, but ultimately the end results are generally the same: in some cases, surfaces treated with mineral oil sometimes rust faster than the same surfaces that are just washed and dried. To my [limited] understanding, the scientific reasoning of mineral oil is generally under the basis of displacing oxygen and water and hence slowing the process of oxidation. As you noted, it lacks others additives and other particles expedite oxidation. However, it is almost impossible to avoid these on a knife that lives in a pocket, goes all over the place, and is used for almost anything in a world where there are particles in the air which in and of themselves can expedite rusting. And as a wet lubricant, it suffers from the issue of accumulation, with no additive to interfere otherwise. Even if someone can keep it clean and free from accumulation, it evaporates at a rate that limits its practicality greatly. Even on cutting boards it tends to evaporate really quickly and so quickly that I've moved to a cream that is part mineral oil and part beeswax for a little better longevity.
Click to expand...

Mineral oil gets rubbed or washed or scrubbed away in use, true. So will every other lube or protectant ever made. In porous materials, it'll sink in over time. It doesn't evaporate, however (unless heated to extremes). The oily/greasy film left on lubricated machinery for years & years is the unevaporated base 'mineral oil' left over after other solvents and additives have evaporated off.

And the 'accumulation' issue is true with any petro-based lube or protectant as well (and contradicts the evaporation theory; it couldn't accumulate if it also evaporates away). This is why I pointed out CLEAN & DRY as the primary and most effective means to minimize rust. A knife that gets cleaned and re-oiled as needed will also have the old oil cleaned off and re-applied, and the accumulation issue is rendered moot.

As Bill has mentioned, mineral oil makes up the primary lubricating ingredient in the overwhelming majority of products made for such use.


David
 
I have 1095 blades that sit in the house and I do nothing with them most of the time. Some I leave dry. Some get mineral oil. None rust indoors. If I carry a 1095 blade in the hot humid Kansas summer it will get some corrosion unless I force a patina, apply some kind of protectant, polish to a high grit finish, or polish it with Flitz. When I carry and use 1095 knives I have had better luck preventing corrosion by applying mineral oil than not applying any. Of course this is my experience.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Mineral oil doesn't promote rusting. It doesn't evaporate quickly, either. The main lubricant in most oils is mineral oil.
Click to expand...

To my understanding, most of the protectants that contain mineral oil have anti-corrosive additives? If so, doesn't that alter how well it protect a surface in theory and in practice, making it kind of difficult to compare directly to treatment with pure mineral oil?




Obsessed with Edges said:
Mineral oil gets rubbed or washed or scrubbed away in use, true. So will every other lube or protectant ever made. In porous materials, it'll sink in over time. It doesn't evaporate, however (unless heated to extremes). The oily/greasy film left on lubricated machinery for years & years is the unevaporated base 'mineral oil' left over after other solvents and additives have evaporated off.

And the 'accumulation' issue is true with any petro-based lube or protectant as well (and contradicts the evaporation theory; it couldn't accumulate if it also evaporates away). This is why I pointed out CLEAN & DRY as the primary and most effective means to minimize rust. A knife that gets cleaned and re-oiled as needed will also have the old oil cleaned off and re-applied, and the accumulation issue is rendered moot.

As Bill has mentioned, mineral oil makes up the primary lubricating ingredient in the overwhelming majority of products made for such use.


David
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It might be easiest for us to agree to disagree.

As for the speed of accumulation, at least I have found it to quickly accumulate dirt and debris on knives and so I disagree with your statement because not every protectant I have used has accumulated debris at the same pace or same severity (for example, a 'dry' lubricant can greatly reduce accumulation or fouling).

As for getting washed away, I do not mean to imply any protectant lasts forever. While any protectant will eventually wash away/reach a point of ineffectiveness, it will not happen under the same conditions and some will much, much, much more easily than others. Using a reactive steel in a marine environment with mineral oil and comparing the same usage to something like Eezox shows how Eezox can remain on surfaces for very prolonged periods even when exposed to high heat, humidity, and submersion. My opinion is that's a pretty significant difference, anything but moot, and one of the primary reasons someone may want to invest in a certain protectant.

While I am not a scientist, I know what I have observed from my own testing and usage over time, which has generally yielded results with somewhat similar outcomes as such:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_7/641667_An_unscientific_experiment_in_Rust.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-a-not-so-little-rust-prevention-test-round-2
http://www.nynas.com/Segment/Other-...hnical-articles/Right-oil-prevents-corrosion/
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?103924-Corrosion-Testing-(New-Pics-5-08-12)
http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html
[If there is anything that these tests show, it is that protectants vary greatly in effectiveness and base mineral oil products do not work very well in demanding environmental conditions, which folding knives often see.]

And regardless of if the mineral oil is the actual cause of the rust at a molecular level, my own testing of pure mineral oil has indicated it provides little more protection than just a dry surface, and, in some instances, the metal coated with mineral oil ultimately had more rust on it than the dry surface and often pitted worse. There was zero doubt in some cases that the uncoated dry metal did better.

While I am by no means an expert on this topic, I have to rely on what I have seen with my own eyes after my curiosity led me to do some testing. As I do not expect anyone to take what I am saying at face value, I would encourage someone to test it for themselves and see if they concur with my assessment or not. A few different tests using an untreated metal as the control, and metal treated with mineral oil, and a metal treated with something else as the experiment, and some observation will yield "in-practice" results. And while no experiment is ever perfect and my backyard testing is certainly not board-certified and blinded, I have to believe what I have seen and replicated "in-practice," and this "in-practice" testing caused me to change my view on protectants, as well as brands.

The original point I meant to convey was that mineral oil a poor protectant for folding knives and much better alternatives exist.
 
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