Repair limitations with DLC coated blades.

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Pcexbird

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Nov 27, 2020
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A strange thought came to mind when considering purchasing a DLC coated Paramilitary 2.

If the tip was to break off on this knife (or any DLC blade) would I be stuck with a knife that cannot be fixed as the coating cannot be (or wouldn't be cost-effective to) be reapplied to where it is fixed?

Hence having a black bladed knife with a shiny tip.

I don't plan on prying with the blade, but in the event of an accidental drop, losing the needle tip on these blades is a real possibility. Am I missing something?

Thoughts?
 
You'd probably have to send it in to the factory for a replacement, or find some outfit that applies DLC -- from what I can find out on-line it's not a do-it-yourself process. If it was just a small tip break I'd just hone it out. No problem with my PM2 (S30V, non-coated) -- haven't dropped or abused it but it's not something I worry about. The blade is plenty sturdy.
 
If it were to break and be repaired they're going to be removing material to reprofile it and they're not going to remove more than they have to because its hard as shit and hell on tooling. You're worrying about something that's a complete non issue.
 
Applying DLC or other PVD thin films requires rather expensive equipment, I don't think there are many people doing it in their garages. (For illustrative purposes, here are pictures of one vendor's smaller PVD chambers: https://vaportech.com/blog-small-pvd-coating-system-2/ .)

This is not my business, so value this at what you paid, but I did research having some (non-knife) parts coated a while back, and talked through process and cost issues with a few different providers. My intuition is that it isn't cost effective to re-coat blades after repair work.

So I suspect the cost-sensitive thing for the factory to do is just replace the blade.
 
shane45-1911 said:
LOL.

DLC is only microns thick on a knife blade - it is not hard on tooling. The steel under it is far harder.
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Shows how much you think you know vs how little you actually know. DLC is so much harder than the blade steel that it's too hard to rate on the rockwell scale and is basically half again harder than typical blade super steels. Soooo.... you're wrong.
 
Redneckbmxer24 said:
Shows how much you think you know vs how little you actually know. DLC is so much harder than the blade steel that it's too hard to rate on the rockwell scale and is basically half again harder than typical blade super steels. Soooo.... you're wrong.
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Nope, not wrong. The miniscule thickness of DLC coating on a knife makes tooling issues irrelevant.

No one is going to be wearing out any milling or CNC machines by grinding out the tip of a DLC-coated knife.
 
shane45-1911 said:
Nope, not wrong. The miniscule thickness of DLC coating on a knife makes tooling issues irrelevant.

No one is going to be wearing out any milling or CNC machines by grinding out the tip of a DLC-coated knife.
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It’s literally the same thickness as on a firearm part or anything else that gets DLC’d and yes it does wear tooling because it’s hard. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
 
Redneckbmxer24 said:
It’s literally the same thickness as on a firearm part or anything else that gets DLC’d and yes it does wear tooling because it’s hard. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
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"Literally"? And what thickness is that please? I wasn't aware there was a universal standard for DLC coating thickness. :rolleyes:

I won't argue with you any further so please carry on wallowing in your ignorance. Know-it-all new guys don't last long around here anyway.
 
shane45-1911 said:
"Literally"? And what thickness is that please? I wasn't aware there was a universal standard for DLC coating thickness. :rolleyes:

I won't argue with you any further so please carry on wallowing in your ignorance. Know-it-all new guys don't last long around here anyway.
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DLC is typically 1-2 microns.

I’m a managing partner and chief procurement officer of a large company that manufactures and sells metal hardware including DLC coated finishes as well as coated and plated. I also have some experience with DLC in the firearms industry having some parts made, R&D’d and produced. I’m far from a scientist but have actual experience with it.

So what qualifies you as an expert on the matter?
 
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shane45-1911 said:
LOL.

DLC is only microns thick on a knife blade - it is not hard on tooling. The steel under it is far harder.
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I think you mean to say the steel is harder on the tooling. It sounds like you are saying the steel is harder than the DLC, which it isn't. Your intended point is valid though. The DLC is soooo much thinner than the amount of steel ground. Produces way more wear on tooling.
 
Well, if you are using your knife your DLC coating is going to be scratched over the coming weeks, months, and years. IF the tip breaks off and you need to redo it, I wouldn't worry about it. I think it looks good. If you are really worried about how it looks, then grab an uncoated blade.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/knives-that-look-better-with-scratches.1552810/

PS. I don't which is harder DLC or steel so I avoided the question.
 
gazz98 said:
Well, if you are using your knife your DLC coating is going to be scratched over the coming weeks, months, and years. IF the tip breaks off and you need to redo it, I wouldn't worry about it. I think it looks good. If you are really worried about how it looks, then grab an uncoated blade.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/knives-that-look-better-with-scratches.1552810/

PS. I don't which is harder DLC or steel so I avoided the question.
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it's pretty hard to scratch up dlc. not saying ya can't. on cutting it would have to be harder than it to scratch it.

most times its residue left from whatever ya cut. for example i cut an aluminum can years ago with dlc knife. thought I had scratched the coating....but came to find out it was aluminum left on it and was able to rub it away with some effort and no scratch.
 
The salient fact is if you break off a tip that won't flake off the coating. If the blade gets reground that won't affect the coating unless you farm that out to the guy at the circus.

The other fact is that if you tend to break tips off blades the PM2 is a bad choice for you.
 
Don't over think it, use the knife. If you break the tip fix it or get a new one and don't do that again. If you feel the PM2 tip is too thin for you there are plenty of other choices, or carry a multitool you can abuse a little more.
 
Yep JBC6650 is correct. Get it and use it.

I carried a black/DLC PM 2 for years until recently and I never broke the tip. Not saying it cant happen, I'm sure it does frequently as the tip of the PM2 is thin. But I wouldn't call it fragile.

However, if you are the kind of person who does a lot of prying with your knife. Get the tanto version or a different knife and profile all together.

Edited for spelling...
 
Pcexbird said:
A strange thought came to mind when considering purchasing a DLC coated Paramilitary 2.

If the tip was to break off on this knife (or any DLC blade) would I be stuck with a knife that cannot be fixed as the coating cannot be (or wouldn't be cost-effective to) be reapplied to where it is fixed?

Hence having a black bladed knife with a shiny tip.

I don't plan on prying with the blade, but in the event of an accidental drop, losing the needle tip on these blades is a real possibility. Am I missing something?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I’m confused as to what you’re worried about. If the tip breaks off, and you have someone professionally regrind the tip, they would start at the furthest point of the spine that still has coating on it and round off the the edge. Why would the tip be “shiny”?
 
unwisefool said:
I am almost positive they just don't glue a new tip on there, so nothing should be shiny or missing DLC after a repair...
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I got to thinking maybe he’s worried they’ll regrind the whole front end, but at that point the cost from a 3rd party wouldn’t be worth it and the manufacturer would replace the blade or reject warranty, not regrind the sides.
 
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