Repair of failing rolling locks on the SIFU

J

J W Kilpatrick

Joined
Aug 11, 2001
Messages
112
The way I repaired the failing rolling lock on the SIFUS that I own is as follows:
1. Remove only the blade from the handle by unscrewing the pin that holds the blade in place. Be sure not to lose the 2 nylon spacers on either side of the blade where the removed pin passes through the blade.
2. Use a metal cone shaped file with diamond bits embedded into the metal cone and use 150 to 200 individual strokes to file down the rear of the notch in the rear of the blade that the rolling pin rolls into.
3. Reinstall the blade into the handle and you will find that the rolling locking pin will fully roll into the notch in the rear of the blade. In other words, the rolling locking pin will fully engage itself into the notch and you will not be able to cause the blade to fold on your fingers by spine whacking it. However, it would be unwise to spine whack it with such a force that would cause the rolling pin to be bent.
4. You will also discover that the release button on the side of the SIFU will slide all the way forward when the rolling lock is fully engaged.
5. It took me a while to figure this puzzle out,
but I had to solve it because I had 6 out of 8 SIFUS that I had purchased on which the rolling locks were failing because they apparently were not subjected to proper quality control. Never give up
 
hey 'bro, glad ya got your sifu's working right - your solution sounds ok by me, but, then again, i am no expert on the rolling lock, unless having one fail/cut ya makes ya one lol

but am glad to hear ya got 'em going............


sifu
 
Greetings SIFU1
The SIFU really is a great folder. It feels good to have eight of them that work properly. Looks like I loaded up on them at the right time since the manufacturing of them appears to be going the way of the dodo bird.
 
Having built several rolling locks under license from REKAT, I wish to caution to be carefull not to remove too much material from the lock noth. As JW noted, the lock fully engages and the slide button goes all the way to the front of the notch. If this is the case, there is no room for wear left and eventually you will get irreversible blade play. It is a great lock if properly tuned! :)
 
Well lets see here, which do I want? A knife that folds up on me, or one that "might" someday develop blade play that cant be dialed out. Mmmmm
hard choice. So are you saying the proper condition for this knife is one where the lock is not fully engaged ? I assume when I sent mine in to Rekat, Bob Brothers did some variation of the same thing. :confused:
 
I don't think that I'd use a file or diamond stone. I'd use some 400-600 grit paper and wrap it around a small dowel, then polish the notch. Takes off a lot less material which is what Rob Simonich and Bob Brothers talked about. The tolerances in that area are fairly small, made to last years of quality service, but under normal conditions. Diamond stones and files can take a lot of years off of the edge of a blade, which is why many people use a steel, ceramics and strops to bring back an edge. Same thing with this area of the knife!

Hank:cool:
 
Well, now let me mull this over in my mind and think about this for a while. If I could get about 5 years wear out of each of the SIFUS on which I adjusted the rolling locks and I have 8 SIFUS, then I should hopefully get around 40 years service from the 8 SIFUS that I own. Since I am 60 years old that would allow me to own a good operating SIFU until I am 100 years old. Maybe I should go ahead and try to buy a couple more of them just to make sure I have enough of them.
 
If irreversible blade play falls upon my SIFUS like a disease or deathly plague, maybe I will take my SIFUS to a machine shop and replace the smaller diameter rolling lock pin with a larger diameter rolling lock pin to solve the problem. However. I don't think I will worry about this situation until it occurrs. That would be a lot like taking an asprin for a headache before it occurs. Afterall the blade is made of D 2 enhanced steel which should be pretty tough and wear well for a long time, right?
 
At any rate, it looks like we are finally getting to the truth about the rolling lock on the SIFU. That is why the rolling lock was allowing blades to fold on people's fingers. The rolling lock system as shown by the above discussions is an extremely tight tolerance system. Such a system would require strict quality control to insure that blades would not close on people's fingers. It appears that such quality control was not being applied by Bob Brothers and crew. So, when I began to complain about the failings of 6 SIFUS, I was told that I was the one who caused the problem by abusing the SIFUS all of which not true. But I finally fixed Bob Brother's quality control problem on my SIFUS and got them to where I can finally use them after paying $150 apiece for them.
 
Hmmmm, I still fail to see any information anywhere that endorses the spine whack test on Rolling Locks. As a matter of fact, I remember distinctly several posts saying just this. Hmmmm... I wonder why this is. Oh yeah, because it damages the stop pins.

Look, the Rolling lock is extremely strong, everyone knows this. Independant testing bears it out. Breaking them, then expecting them to work flawlessly doesn't make any sense - but if that's what floats your boat....

Kevin
 
Easy does it Spark. I'm not trying to start a fire fight. It's just that after paying $1200 for a bunch of highly praised knives, I expected them to function properly and safely and not be accused by a defensive knife manufacturer that I was the one who caused the problem without the knife manufacturer ever looking at them. That is why I never sent them back to be looked at because REKAT had already made their mind up about the situation. I am very pleased with the Blades Forum which allows so much information be shared about knives and thereby allows novices like myself increase my knowledge about knives. You have done an excellent work in creating Blades Forum. Peace, Brother. I have never intended to attack you or your work at Blades Forum.
 
Hey Spark, I never flicked my Sifu open and always
was gentle closing it. Never did the spine whack test either, yet on day two the lock failed. Mine did not close on my fingers. I simply closed the lock never to have it lock in place again. It simply became a knife with no lock. I do not know the exact nature of what happened to it. But Bob Brothers fixed it asap, and its solid as a rock since. I have never used it hard though so who knows. I would never stab into something with it now, thats for sure. But thats not what I bought it for. To tell ya the truth, the only lock I trust 1000 percent is the plunge lock, with additional lockout switch, used on the MOD Dieter CQD series of knives. I have both large and small. It aint folding unless you fold it. I do not know why this lock has not been used more. Maybe its because of the cost to design a knife around it. I am very glad JW got his knives to a point he is comfortable with them. A little extra wear is a small price to pay considering the option was not using them.
 
well here we go again -

MINE failed also w/ot ANY abuse/mods - yeah he fixed it but i'm still out the shipping, the knife failed less than 2 wks after i got it, and cut the poo outta me to boot!!

they stopped making he things because the LOCKS HAD PROBS

i would NEVER depend on mine for serious use , if others would, good for them

i bet mine will be worth some $$ some day soon though.......


sifu
 
Ok, that's flat out wrong. They did not stop making anything because of percieved problems from a few vociferous complainers.

REKAT sold thousands of rolling locks, and Bob T said they had an extremely low return rate (less than .1 % IIRC). I had less returns on REKATs than any other knife that we sold, and we sold hundreds. 99% of returns that we did have were for fit and finish, not mechanical problems.

Just because the same 2 people keep raising cain about how the rolling lock sucks after they break them, it doesn't make it so. So get over it.

REKAT closed their forums because they were tired of dealing with troublemakers who were interested not in getting their problems solved, but complaining as much as possible. As for their business, well, I'll let them make the announcement when they are ready - but I'll put it like this, the rumors of their death are a bit exaggerated.

The lock system is rock solid. Their fit and finish work may not be up to Benchmade's or Spyderco's, but then again, they aren't working with injection molded nylon or aluminum (at least until the Savant). The lock system is about 5 times as complex as a lockback or a liner lock, and twice as complex as an Axis, but works just dandy if used properly.

The differance is that REKAT wasn't Benchmade or Spyderco - they are 3 people, busting ass to make a great product.

If there is a problem with any knife they made it is the end user's responsibility to return it to them for warranty work. If the end user fails to do so, the blame remains with them, <b>not REKAT</b>.

Kevin
 
What about moving this to GBU?

He said, she said stuff could go elsewhere, IMO.
 
I have 100% faith in the rolling locks of MY 2 Sifu and other REKAT folders that I own! I DID gently polish the "workings" of a few of my REKAT folders, and it has made quite a difference in their smoothness, BUT I'd NEVER feel that I know more about the rolling-lock than it's designers, so I WON'T mess with that.

Dang...I wish that REKAT would return to BladeForums, build their web-site, and come-out with a "paper catalog" (and more excellent knives!).:).
 
Hey Dann!

I did the same thing to my 2 sifu's, carnivour and carnivour cub. The Sifu's already had a pretty smooth action as well as the cub, but the carnivour was a little rough. 400 grit paper did the trick. I learned from Jason's problem (medusaoblongata) with overdoing the sanding that he posted a while ago. It'd be nice if the rolling lock was ambidextrous like the axis lock as well. My lefty son would appreciate that, probably as much as you! Did you ever get Mitch to let go of his lefty?

Hank:cool:
 
I'll tell you one thing Spark. I am not a liar and you make me out to be a liar when you say that I broke the rolling locks on my Sifus. Bob Brothers lied to me once and that is why I never trusted him and now I don't think too much of your character for the untrue comments you are making about me. So be it. If you want to operate your business with the style and class of a jackass, go ahead and do so.
 
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