Replace thumb stud, drill a hole?

dePaul

dePaul

Joined
Aug 8, 2000
Messages
1,044
Does anybody know how hard it would be to replace the thumb stud with a freshly drilled (Spyder)hole? For example on a BM 710 or 705? What kind of drill would one have to use? Or is there anybody doing those type of services?
 
I would think that any competent machinist
could do the job. The real danger lies with
heat, cutting the steel with a drill bit is the easy part. Not ruining the temper/ heat treat of the blade would be the real trick.
I'm not sure if it could be done, although a
BM 710 with a hole would be rather unique.
Good luck.
 
The right place to ask is the Spyderco forum, as I think they have patented the Spyderhole.

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Reynaert
 
Hm, haven´t thought about the patent issue. You may be right but does the patent really involve a private person or just factory production? I´m not sure. Regarding to the heat treat problem; I suppose that while drilling and at the same time cooling with cold water should do the trick? I dunno...
 
It can be done on a milling machine, using a center cutting carbide end mill, running under the proper coolant. It can also be drilled using a carbide drill under coolant. Either way will protect the heat treat.
As for doing this, I have to ask why do you want to do this? If you like the Spyderhole that much, buy a BM AFCK, or a Spyderco knife. I agree it would be a unique item, but I just can't see doing it to an already functional knife.
Of course, thats just my opinion.......
 
Well, Code3 the answer is very simple. The AFCK and all the Spydies lack the axis lock. This way I would be able to have it all in the same piece
smile.gif
 
Sounds like a good idea to me, as long as you can fit a big enough hole onto the existing blade. Plenty of people can remove steel, but there's nobody i know of who can add it
biggrin.gif


James

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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
 
Two thoughts...

First, drilling a hole into an already hardened blade - esp. one hardened to BM's usual 61 RC or so - would likely not be the easiest thing to do. Check out the Shop Talk forum for a recent discussion on drilling holes in hardened blades.

Second, the knives you mentioned don't have enough of the blade showing when closed for a hole to do much good for opening. You'd probably also have to remove material from the handle and liners just to be able to access the hole. JMHO.

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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice
 
It is tougher than one might think to drill a hole in heat treated steel. I tried drilling a hole in a Gerber LST (to add a thumbstud)without much success. All I succeeded in doing was wrecking some drills, and mucking up the blade. I tried running a steel dowling in a drill press on the blade at high speed to remove the temper in a localized area, and managed to get the dowling so hot it turned molten and melted the end, but still could not get the blade soft enough to drill a hole. I'm not an expert machinist or anything, but it is not an easy task. One thing you would have going, is that there already is a hole, in the Benchmade, you just want to make it bigger.

I ended up hand polishing away the bead blast finish on the blade to get rid of the scratches I made, and it actually turned out pretty good IMHO.
 
Originally posted by Senator:

Second, the knives you mentioned don't have enough of the blade showing when closed for a hole to do much good for opening

Ok, Senator. But what about drilling two minor holes in line with each other to create an oblong figure?
Click to expand...
 
If I remember right, the patent is up on the spyderco hole, it is now just a registered trademark.Which means you can use a hole of a different shape. Thats why you see lots of knockoffs with triangle shaped holes ( ever heard of cuttin horse knives?... cough cough peices of **** cough cough) If you want to make knives with a round hole and sell them, under your own name you can get a license from spyderco. I think they were doing it at $1 dollar per knife for up to 50 knives per year, or if you were to do more than that like benchamde, you would need to get a special license from them and pay a bigger fee.
Like the others here say though, there has to be a pretty big section of blade exposed when the knife is closed for the hole to be usable. Another thought is that on a narrow blade, you will considereably weaken it by drilling a sizable hole in it. The hole on my delica 98 is around 1/2" in diamter. I'd want at least another half inch of material to be left around the hole, which means the knife has to be at least an inch wide from edge to spine.
And there are the added hassles of drilling hardened steel. Like the others said, carbide mills or drill bits is a must. Also requires either a milling machine or very good drill press as any chatter of the bit will shatter a carbide drill bit.
If you want better thumb purchase while opening the knife, I would suggest you try sanding/filing a way some of the G10 slabs next to the thumbstud. Maybe just round off that whole edge where the first contour is for your index finger. You would only have to thin it down enough that the thumbstud protrudes a little father out beyond the slabs than it already does, and then round the edge off real well so you can sort of get your thumb underneath it too. It could al be done by hand with small files and sandpaper, or even just a dowel rod and sandpaper. And you wouldn't have to alter the liners at all.

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.
 
Thx for your contribution Matt. I´ve spoken to Sal Glesser and he said it´s OK for me to drill a hole in my 710 if I want. The patent only involves companies and not private persons, as I understood it. However your point of view on the other aspects is "food for thought". I believe that the shape of the hole is more important than the size of it and that it can be done. For instance what about making the hole somewhat descented from bottom up? The hole would be quite small but your thumb would still get a good grip.
 
Hello folks,

If you should try this, I guarantee you will kill your blade. Any carbide drill bit will put so much stress on the blade, the blade or the bit will collapse, if you get lucky, and none break, the blade needs to be re-heat-treathed, as it is in an un-annealled state and extra-fragile.
The only way I see to do this is by making the hole in is already bigger using diamant things, like with a dremel engraving thing. And that takes long and is very expensive on engraving bits.

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"If the world wouldn't SUCK, we'd all fall off !"

member of the BKS
http://www.expage.com/belgianknives
 
What about creating a smaller hole with a diamond drill and then enlarging it in a number of steps? And at the same time cooling down the blade by using ice cold water and making frequent pauses?
 
Bart, I must disagree. While drilling in hardened steel is by no means easy, it is not as certain disaster as you predict. The key is to go slow and easy, rather than trying to show the bit through as if you were drilling in very soft wood. Large amounts of cutting fluid as well as frequent cool-down breaks will protect both the bits and the heat-treat of the blade.

dePaul, I really don't see how this would work. The blade does not stick out far enough from the handle when closed for your thumb to catch a hole easily. You could reach in and do it, but not anywhere near as easily as with the thumbstuds. If you take a look at Spyderco knives, there is a 'hump' in the blade to allow the hole to be farther out from the handle, so that the thumb may comfortably reach it. I think your project, while intriguing, would actually make the knife harder to open.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Hm, I see what you mean e_utopia. Have to take another session of brain storming on this matter
smile.gif

 
Depending on your determination to try this, EDM (Electronic Discharge Machining) is a possible alternative. Reference: Mag-Na-Port recoil reduction (slots cut in barrels.)
The MNP company used to be willing to do other things, like blades, I understand. They have a patent on the process for gun barrels, but I think there are shops everywhere with EDM machinery. Heat treat is not effected by the process, as I understand it.


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The sword cannot cut itself, the eye cannot see itself.
 
Patents are to protect entities from others putting their processes into commerce. Although I am not a lawyer, (I play one on TV!), I'm sure it is not illegal for an individual to use a patented idea for his own use. Many of the recipes you use for food at home may actually be formulations patented by someone, or a company, for use in commerce, but because your intention is to eat the product and not to sell it to make money, you are not violating the patent.

"This offer void where prohibited by law!"

Bruce
 
dePaul - in addition to being difficult to drill hardened steel, the holes in Spyderco pcs are very critical to size and location from the pivot.

We also measure the arc that the hole will travel, where it starts and ends, etc. When we begin a design, we begin with the pivot and the hole. We have found very few designs that one can simply just drill a hole in and have it be functional.

sal
 
dePaul,

I think a BETTER solution to your quest would be to simply trade your BM knife(s) for Spydercos.
biggrin.gif
.

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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
glockman99@hotmail.com
ICQ# 53675663
 
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