replacements for Crucible steels?

hardheart

hardheart

Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
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With Crucible auctioning off in September, what are you looking for as replacement when the existing stocks deplete? I'm wondering who is going to take their place, and with what alloy names. A lot of these I'm listing have already been used, or are essentially the same as an alloy Crucile offered (just like they all make an A2, D2, S7, etc)

Latrobe - BG-42, 20CV, 420PM, A11, Mega 4, Xtreme, 14-4CrMo, Pyrovan, PGK, Vertex

Uddeholm - Caldie, Vanadis 4 (extra)/6/10, K294, K340, Elmax, Vancron 40, Sleipner

Carpenter - PD #1, CD #1, 420CW, 20-4, 440XH, A11, A11LVC

Can't find much online about Takefu or Hitachi's full line of alloys, or even the composition of most of the ones they do list. I would like to know what is in S-Magic or the Super X series.
 
I'm hoping someone will buy them and keep the same steels offered now.
But with it being said that the buyer would absorb the Huge fine by OSHA, and make all repairs(over 70 violations) makes me wonder what may happen to the plant.
 
What would happen to their patents and steel recipes? Maybe someone else could pick up production of their popular ones, like S30V. I hope S90V stays too, one of my absolute favorites.
 
Latrobe has an excellent selection of steels, including the 10V/A11, S90V/420PM, etc. What they don't have apparently is the desire to deal with small custom makers. If they will be better with the larger production companies is to be seen. If BG42 is any indication, it's not good.

From what I see though S30V is one of the only steels that doesn't have a direct replacement. S110V also. For S30V I'd imagine someone would want to purchase the patent. It's a very popular steel. S110V? Probably not that big of a market. I'm not even sure it was anything more than an experimental run.
 
Ken44 said:
I'm hoping someone will buy them and keep the same steels offered now.
But with it being said that the buyer would absorb the Huge fine by OSHA, and make all repairs(over 70 violations) makes me wonder what may happen to the plant.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on the nature of the violations
and the fine?
 
CPM154 is equivalent to RWL-34 .Both are powder metal alloys though RWL-34 isn'r readily found here at this time. I think CPM154 is the best all round steel for both user and maker.
154CM is equivalent to ATS-34.
 
I have been aware of this for some time.

I am 16, and an amateur knife maker, terribly interested in metallurgy as well, and am seriously worried about the great steels being gone before I can get some (it's not fair). I have looked at the crucible data sheets, and have concluded that CPM 9v, and M4 are the best, though I appreciate the others mentioned. So to wit I would like to purchase a billet to save until I can do a great job. So where is the best place to buy these steels. Can I get them straight from Crucible, or are there other retailers (links appreciated)
 
I appreciate workplace safety, and I'm sorry a Crucible employee died, but this illustrates why I hate OSHA/Cal-OSHA. They're too management-heavy to do anything productive.

I know of a couple of shops here in the Bay Area that had to shut down because of supposed 'violations' brought up by OSHA and Cal-OSHA. One outfit brought up the point, in court, that if OSHA/Cal-OSHA insisted on the fines they were levying, they would have to shut their doors, and put 40+ people out of work.

These were all existing problems, before the new owner took over; OSHA/Cal-OSHA wouldn't budge. Well, thanks to them, I watched the owners get ruined financially, 40+ people put out of work, and several people have to move out of state to find work in their field. And these people (O/C-O) wonder why they're hated so much.

thx - cpr
 
hardheart said:
Uddeholm - Caldie, Vanadis 4 (extra)/6/10, K294, K340, Elmax, Vancron 40, Sleipner

Carpenter - PD #1, CD #1, 420CW, 20-4, 440XH, A11, A11LVC
Click to expand...

hey bro

I have checked into the Vanadis 4 extra...the lowest thickness it comes in is .500"

nice people there to chat with though

Latrobe is all that is wrong with the steel industry...They can rot
 
Orca, you don't know OSHA unless you had to deal with them in the '70s !! They went totally out of control and Congress had to step in and reduce their powers .
Nebulae , The steels you mention are not types that you would want to try to forge to more convenient sizes from a billet !! Crucibles CPM M4 is better than standard types. I haven't looked at the Carpenter types but the point is will they serve the knife industry ? One good point is that there is more powder types steel on the market which at least I appreciate !
 
To be honest that fine is really not that big. When a death occurs at a facility OSHA puts them under the microscope. An unmarked container in a flammable cabinet = 7K. Any flammable material in a flammable cabinet = 7K. Unmarked chemicals on the shop floor = 7K. Improper MSDS access, improper inspection coding on rigging, etc. They can seriously nickel and dime a facility to 250K very easily. Crucible must be in financial trouble if they can not afford the fines. When a death occurs OSHA will hit facilities with stuff that they normally just warn them about or let slide. They also will not announce when they are showing up.
 
Ken44 said:
I'm hoping someone will buy them and keep the same steels offered now.
But with it being said that the buyer would absorb the Huge fine by OSHA, and make all repairs(over 70 violations) makes me wonder what may happen to the plant.
Click to expand...

bld522 said:
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/osha_proposes_249000_in_fines.html
Click to expand...

What "huge fine"? For a corporation that size, $250K is peanuts. It is a non-issue. Likewise the costs of fixing the violations. Compared to the value of the company, it is in the noise level.

As far as who would buy Crucible, the question will be, "into whose portfolio of companies does crucible steel fit well enough to be worth buying?" I would look to ThyssenKrupp or Bohler as potential buyers. The Germans are buying US corporations like crazy.
 
hardheart said:
Can't find much online about Takefu or Hitachi's full line of alloys, or even the composition of most of the ones they do list. I would like to know what is in S-Magic or the Super X series.
Click to expand...

Here's some sheets from Hitachi metals.

http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/prod/prod19/pdf/yss_tool_steels_b.pdf

This is a catalogue of cutlery steels including ATS34 and ZDP but in Japanese.
http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/pdf/cat/hy-b10-d.pdf

Don't know about Takefu, sorry.
 
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Nebulae said:
I have been aware of this for some time.

I am 16, and an amateur knife maker, terribly interested in metallurgy as well, and am seriously worried about the great steels being gone before I can get some (it's not fair). I have looked at the crucible data sheets, and have concluded that CPM 9v, and M4 are the best, though I appreciate the others mentioned. So to wit I would like to purchase a billet to save until I can do a great job. So where is the best place to buy these steels. Can I get them straight from Crucible, or are there other retailers (links appreciated)
Click to expand...
9V and PM-M4 are available from other steel companies. Why do you want to use 9V?
 
knarfeng said:
What "huge fine"? For a corporation that size, $250K is peanuts. It is a non-issue. Likewise the costs of fixing the violations. Compared to the value of the company, it is in the noise level.
.
Click to expand...

Yes Huge, one of the highest Ever in that area. $249,000 and 71 violations to fix is not a non-issue. If a non issue it would have already sold instead of having to be auctioned. The fact a person died doesn't help either at making it a non issue. You also have no idea what it will cost to fix the violations.
 
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