Reporting those that back out of deals

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

While I agree that itrader feedback should not be left when material/money changes hands, I fully support letting the community know when another backs out of the deal. To me it is in the interest to let the community at large know of these kinds of events, to protect our time/property/money even better. I cannot think of why one should not bring such topics up here, as then the offending parties will know they are being held accountable for their lack of following through on their word. This also gives the offending party the opportunity to give their side of the story. This way patterns may be seen ahead of time, accountability is increased, and open dialogue can ensue.

In many such threads I see the OP denigrated for letting the community know that there is an individual not holding up their end of the bargain. I do not understand how keeping quiet helps anybody? If I backed out of a deal I think I would try to explain to all prior to the person I let down posting, so I could be up front with everybody. Maybe I am odd that way.....

 

[The Government]

I think it is an essential part of this exchange. For good, bad, and even neutral experiences -documenting our dealings is a good thing.

Not only do we learn about the individuals involved, but we also learn more about how to handle the overall process of using a www exchange such as this.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

If you're referring to the thread that's active right now, most everyone agrees with posting the facts and person's username, but not the real name.

 

[ooitzoo]

If you're referring to the thread that's active right now, most everyone agrees with posting the facts and person's username, but not the real name.

^^^ I'm not going to bother responding to this as its been addressed in the other thread.

You know where I stand on backing out of a trade. Its really a fine line; you can back out any time you want but don't give a clear thumbs up on a trade and then back out AFTER you've said the goods are going out. Especially without a good explanation. Things happen but clear communication is key.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

If you're referring to the thread that's active right now, most everyone agrees with posting the facts and person's username, but not the real name.

This goes well beyond any current thread, and is a topic I've meant to post for a while. If somebody posts that another backed out- it seems like too many (IMO) respond with a "who cares, water under the bridge" attitude that I don't get. If during negotiations one backs out it is one thing, if a deal has been finalized on and agreed to then I feel it should be reported at either parties discretion.

 

[JDieseljoe69]

I have had a few people want to back out on trades as well as sales. As long as nothing has been sent as far as money via paypal or the knife/item I just move on, remember the gentlemen s/ladies name and make sure not to do business with them again. I wanted to back out of a trade because I thought the guy was trying to scam me, we ended up trading and all was fine but we both have negative feedback because of it. He was pissed I wanted to back out and I was pissed he left negative feedback that I can not get removed.

 

[Maniacal Pete]

I don't see anything wrong with reporting when someone backs out of a deal that has been finalized.
I just think it is plain foolish to make yourself look like an ass in the process.
It can only hurt your prospects of finding people that will want to put up with the potential hassle of dealing with you in the future.
Simply put up a post stating your disappointment in a cool and dispassionate manner, and then move on to the next deal.
Be prepared, that in an argument without a payment or a tracking number both side's stories are 100% hearsay,
and in a poo fight; everyone gets covered in poo.

 

[RevDevil]

In my opinion, that is getting too far into it. So you have something lined up and it falls through, so what? If no goods or money changes hands, what is the big deal really? On one hand, the other person might have some hesitations for whatever their own reasons are. So based on this, you wnt to smear their name and rep if they don't provide you a reason that you deem acceptable? Retaliation for inconvenience is just plain stupid.

On the other side of the coin, if you have a repeat flaker, that is a totally different story. Chances are a cursory search will turn up results of that behavior. If you are going to trade, it is the responsibility of each person to be sure that they want to trade the items, and indeed want to recieve the other. Furthermore, you both have to agree to the terms ahead of time. Common sense should be kicking in at this point. If you have any doubts, walk away. But it seems that filling up the boards with this kind of experience is going to end up hurting everyone in the long run.
$.02

 

[ooitzoo]

In my opinion, that is getting too far into it. So you have something lined up and it falls through, so what? If no goods or money changes hands, what is the big deal really? On one hand, the other person might have some hesitations for whatever their own reasons are. So based on this, you wnt to smear their name and rep if they don't provide you a reason that you deem acceptable? Retaliation for inconvenience is just plain stupid.

On the other side of the coin, if you have a repeat flaker, that is a totally different story. Chances are a cursory search will turn up results of that behavior. If you are going to trade, it is the responsibility of each person to be sure that they want to trade the items, and indeed want to recieve the other. Furthermore, you both have to agree to the terms ahead of time. Common sense should be kicking in at this point. If you have any doubts, walk away. But it seems that filling up the boards with this kind of experience is going to end up hurting everyone in the long run.
$.02

Yes, but how do you define a pattern or trend without someone posting it in the first place? If you assume you're the first then it makes sense to post.

 

[RevDevil]

I guess I don't get worked up enough to get to that point. There are 100k members here more or less. i don't have time to sweat one. I have had pele say that they want something I've tried to sell, then they never showed up. Personally, I just don't care enough. If I see the same person doing it over and over, things have a way of working themselves out. The person usually steps on too many toes and then bails for good or they get banned.

 

[nick425]

I guess I don't get worked up enough to get to that point. There are 100k members here more or less. i don't have time to sweat one. I have had pele say that they want something I've tried to sell, then they never showed up. Personally, I just don't care enough. If I see the same person doing it over and over, things have a way of working themselves out. The person usually steps on too many toes and then bails for good or they get banned.

+1 :thumbup:

 

[rayban]

I had two deals cancel on me last week alone...never had it happen to me before, then whammm, two in one week.
I still didn't feel compelled to announce it however.....people change their minds. It's just not something I feel like making a big fuss over.

 

[ssblood]

I'd rather them cancel before anything changes hand.

 

[Maniacal Pete]

It's called SPF: Sold Pending Funds.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I guess I don't get worked up enough to get to that point. There are 100k members here more or less. i don't have time to sweat one. I have had pele say that they want something I've tried to sell, then they never showed up. Personally, I just don't care enough. If I see the same person doing it over and over, things have a way of working themselves out. The person usually steps on too many toes and then bails for good or they get banned.

How does anybody see it unless it is reported. I rarely post directly onto a persons thread as I am Canadian and want to work out the details behind the scenes. How would you know if I have flaked or not. And despite my flaking I keep a good name due to nobody reporting it. Most threads about backing out seem to me to be behind the scene deals. Once it is brought to air the community is aware of it. I find the "I'll remember them and never do a transaction with them" attitude to be kind of selfish and short sighted. In my mind if the individual is poor enough that I do not wish to do business, then their transgression is bad enough to discuss and hopefully have the community at large aware of, so that each individual has full information to make their decision with. Simply stating "we had a deal, member "x" reneged on it, will not destroy a members credibility, and in past threads I've found that the offending party can describe their POV, and has occasionally led to more confidence in the member. Unless you are privy to behind the scene info- GB&U is the proper place for this kind of info. Plus this discourse may help the offending party realize their error and reform their actions, or read about others in similar situations and learn more about the complex BF experience.

I have had every agreement for Busse knives pulled from me AFTER everything was agreed to (and only had deals pulled for Busse), and was just lucky I had not sent money yet, but feel those types of businessmen should have their tactics known to all, besides it is their actions that set up the situation, why should the offended party have no recourse at all.

(your quote was easiest to address on my phone- not everything aimed at you personally)

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

^^^ I'm not going to bother responding to this as its been addressed in the other thread.

You know where I stand on backing out of a trade. Its really a fine line; you can back out any time you want but don't give a clear thumbs up on a trade and then back out AFTER you've said the goods are going out. Especially without a good explanation. Things happen but clear communication is key.

Looks like you did just that!

 

[shunsui]

Obviously these people are anti-capitalist terrorists and should be renditioned to countries that know how to deal with them (Canada ?). Then again, that would probably put them in some government secrecy category that wouldn't allow you to shame them properly here on the forums. What to do ?

 

[RevDevil]

CLAK - no offense taken on my end. I will say that maybe there are other variables involved in someone pulling away before trading. I honestly cannot say, but Canadian customs might intimidate someone when the time comes to deal. I have bought and sold stuff from Canada and luckily, nothing but good experiences to report. When it comes to pricey knives, (confiscation) that might be a factor, hard to say.

I agree with you, simply stating that "bf member x and I had a deal and he backed out" might seem like a good idea, but I think some people would inevitably get labelled as a whiner that cannot understand that people have the right to change their mind. There is also the risk of getting labelled as a whiner, thereby reducing the liklihood that anyone would want to do business with you. As I tried to state earlier, we never know the circumstances behind the change of heart. If someone flakes, ot might be a better option than losing your goods all together. I'd rather be a little inconvenienced than be out a $300-400 knife.

 

[ooitzoo]

Looks like you did just that!

Wow, thanks for that well-written, useful, and informative post.

Obviously these people are anti-capitalist terrorists and should be renditioned to countries that know how to deal with them (Canada ?). Then again, that would probably put them in some government secrecy category that wouldn't allow you to shame them properly here on the forums. What to do ?

Yep, they may well be "anti-capitalist terrorists" or just flaky individuals. Either way, it may not be a bad idea to put this information out there. I'd rather not deal with terrorists if I can help it.

CLAK - no offense taken on my end. I will say that maybe there are other variables involved in someone pulling away before trading. I honestly cannot say, but Canadian customs might intimidate someone when the time comes to deal. I have bought and sold stuff from Canada and luckily, nothing but good experiences to report. When it comes to pricey knives, (confiscation) that might be a factor, hard to say.

I agree with you, simply stating that "bf member x and I had a deal and he backed out" might seem like a good idea, but I think some people would inevitably get labelled as a whiner that cannot understand that people have the right to change their mind. There is also the risk of getting labelled as a whiner, thereby reducing the liklihood that anyone would want to do business with you. As I tried to state earlier, we never know the circumstances behind the change of heart. If someone flakes, ot might be a better option than losing your goods all together. I'd rather be a little inconvenienced than be out a $300-400 knife.

This is true of any post to GBU other then "[user] ripped me off". If you look at a post whereby someone is unhappy with some nuance of a trade (what others may consider minutiae) there is invariably some member that opines "it's not a big deal, get over it". This happens more times then I can count. I think what CLAK is saying is two-fold; don't shout down folks for bringing this stuff to the forums attention and/or give a reasonable explanation when backing out (especially at the last possible moment.) If its a customs issue then say so.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

Wow, thanks for that well-written, useful, and informative post.



..

Likewise.