Request For More Clarity in Rules

Samael said:
What in the heck are you talking about? I don't see anything getting "derailed" here — just some old friends having a few laughs. You ought to try it sometime.
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Still doesn't change the fact that it's still off the topic Pat was trying to make here. If Blue told me to stay on subject, it should apply to everyone else too, himself included.

But I guess the irony here is pretty clear; the written rules are vague as Pat pointed out in his examples and folks in here strayed off topic even tho Blue said not to and went about disregarding his own rule/command.

I agree whole heartily the following quote:

It is my full intention to use Bladeforums in accordance with the rules. I apologize for being disagreeable, but in my sight it is abundantly clear that I am conforming to the current set of rules as I've outlined above. Just as Bladeforums must insist that it's users obey the rules, so I must insist that Bladeforums' rules be applied literally and without murky interpretation. If the "Exchange Forum Rules" indeed apply to all of Bladeforums, I suggest that the Terms of Service, FAQs, or general rules be updated to make this clear.
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We can't get away with it but moderators/"old friends" can? Murky rule interpretations indeed.
 
OldeWolf said:
Still doesn't change the fact that it's still off the topic Pat was trying to make here. If Blue told me to stay on subject, it should apply to everyone else too, himself included.

But I guess the irony here is pretty clear; the written rules are vague as Pat pointed out in his examples and folks in here strayed off topic even tho Blue said not to and went about disregarding his own rule/command.

I agree whole heartily the following quote:



We can't get away with it but moderators/"old friends" can? Murky rule interpretations indeed.
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Since you posted this about two seconds after Blues' post, I'm sure you hadn't read it. You may want to go back and do that (not that I expect it will make any difference). What he said is entirely accurate.
 
Allow me to make this abundantly clear.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POST ITEMS FOR SALE UNLESS YOU HAVE A GOLD OR HIGHER MEMBERSHIP. That means if you have a BASIC MEMBERSHIP, you ARE NOT allowed to post items for sale. You cannot advertise items in your signature. You cannot advertise your homepage where you are selling things. You cannot mention that you are selling items elsewhere. You cannot do any of 1000000 other things that attempt to circumvent the very simple, very basic rules we have here.

If you are one of those special snowflakes that tries to find each and every exception to the rules, as if by finding one you'll be absolved of not paying for the correct membership, let me make it clear: I don't have time to waste on you. Suck it up, take the infraction, or even better ASK A FRIGGIN MODERATOR PRIOR TO POSTING IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.

Why, if you look around, I even have an announcement in the Exchange forum which lists, in detail, all the selling rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=98

In it, there's this small passage of text:
The only members who may "advertise" their personally built knives, services and/or products via their signature or home page listing in their user profile are "Manufacturers", "Dealers" and "Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Providers".
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DOES THAT ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION? I mean it says right there "signature" and "home page" and "user profile" so it should be pretty friggin clear.
 
Thank you for the clarity. I posted in this forum because it was recommended by the first Mod who PMd me to do so. I have every intention of "sucking it up" and "taking the infraction(s)."
 
Spark said:
The only members who may "advertise" their personally built knives, services and/or products via their signature or home page listing in their user profile are "Manufacturers", "Dealers" and "Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Providers".
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Well, not to toot my own horn, Spark, but that is one of the two additions I posted earlier today to clarify for those who found it too difficult to understand. :p

And to make it even more abundantly clear, right above the first section I added the statement that all rules apply site-wide.

Flog me now, if you must for taking those liberties. I can take it. (Just try to be gentle.) ;)
 
Allow me to eat some crow then!

One thing that has not changed, however, is the Paid Subscriptions page.

On it, you'll notice that each membership states whether you may or may not sell in the Exchange area. Pretty big clue.
 
Spark said:
Allow me to eat some crow then!
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Not at all...I still thought it was pretty clear both in spirit and" chapter and verse", but there's always room for improvement (as well as jello).
 
To reiterate what you've explained, Blues, this is how the (top portion of the) rules were written at the time of my offense:

Rules for the Exchange forums - Updated 10/9/2011 (consolidate your listings!)

5/23/2011 - Added rule about keyword spamming. Removed rules no longer in place due to "sort by first post" layout change.
--------------------------------
Thank you for choosing the BladeForums.com Exchange section. These rules have been compiled based on over a decade of experience, user feedback and inter-forum cooperation. If you have any questions about how rules apply to your situation, please address the moderation staff in the Tech Support forum.

SECTION 1- Membership levels
BladeForums.com is supported by members who have paid subscriptions, as such, only certain membership levels may advertise items for sale on this site.

MANUFACTURERS - Manufacturers & their designated moderators may offer items for sale in their dedicated Hosted Manufacturer Forum. Manufacturers are encouraged to contact us regarding pricing for a Hosted Manufacturer forum.
DEALER / MATERIALS PROVIDER - A dealer is defined as anyone who purchases at wholesale pricing, or purchases items with the intent to resell (flipping). Other terms for dealers include purveyor, broker, reseller, etc.
Please see the additional rules for Dealers below. Materials providers offer raw materials such as steel, handle materials, or other items as typical stock.
KNIFEMAKER / CRAFTSMAN / SERVICE PROVIDER (hearafter referred to as "Knifemaker") - Knifemaker's are allowed to sell items that they have personally created or modified in the KnifeMaker For Sale forums, or their own Hosted KnifeMaker Forum. If you are a knifemaker and would like your own Hosted KnifeMaker Forum, please contact us.
PLATINUM or GOLD MEMBERS - Platinum or Gold members are allowed to post in any of the Individual For Sale or Trade forums.
BASIC MEMBERS - Basic members are not allowed to post items for sale. You may post items for Trade in the Wanted To Trade Forums, or post requests for items to purchase in the Wanted To Buy Forums.
REGISTERED USERS - If you have not purchased a paid subscription, you are by default a Registered User. As such, you are not allowed to sell items on the forums. You may post items for Trade in the Wanted To Trade Forums, or post requests for items to purchase in the Wanted To Buy Forums.

Make sure your correct usergroup is displayed before posting!!! - If you are a Gold, Platinum, or Knifemaker member, you need to click on the User CP and select Group Memberships. Make sure that you have selected the appropriate membership group to display on your profile. If you have "Registered User" displayed and you make a For Sale post, you will receive a "Failure to follow the rules" infraction.
 
I do not see where you are being confused by even the "old" version of section 1?
or how you missed this when choosing the subscription you paid for?
Gold Membership
Cost:
Allows you to sell in the Exchange section, 100 private messages, a custom signature and a 100x100 avatar.

Basic Member
Cost:
Bare bones membership that allows avatars, signatures, limited attachments and private messaging. Does not allow selling in Exchange area (added today?)

patriqq said:
To reiterate what you've explained, Blues, this is how the (top portion of the) rules were written at the time of my offense:

Rules for the Exchange forums - Updated 10/9/2011 (consolidate your listings!)

5/23/2011 - Added rule about keyword spamming. Removed rules no longer in place due to "sort by first post" layout change.
--------------------------------
Thank you for choosing the BladeForums.com Exchange section. These rules have been compiled based on over a decade of experience, user feedback and inter-forum cooperation. If you have any questions about how rules apply to your situation, please address the moderation staff in the Tech Support forum.

SECTION 1- Membership levels
BladeForums.com is supported by members who have paid subscriptions, as such, only certain membership levels may advertise items for sale on this site.

MANUFACTURERS - Manufacturers & their designated moderators may offer items for sale in their dedicated Hosted Manufacturer Forum. Manufacturers are encouraged to contact us regarding pricing for a Hosted Manufacturer forum.
DEALER / MATERIALS PROVIDER - A dealer is defined as anyone who purchases at wholesale pricing, or purchases items with the intent to resell (flipping). Other terms for dealers include purveyor, broker, reseller, etc.
Please see the additional rules for Dealers below. Materials providers offer raw materials such as steel, handle materials, or other items as typical stock.
KNIFEMAKER / CRAFTSMAN / SERVICE PROVIDER (hearafter referred to as "Knifemaker") - Knifemaker's are allowed to sell items that they have personally created or modified in the KnifeMaker For Sale forums, or their own Hosted KnifeMaker Forum. If you are a knifemaker and would like your own Hosted KnifeMaker Forum, please contact us.
PLATINUM or GOLD MEMBERS - Platinum or Gold members are allowed to post in any of the Individual For Sale or Trade forums.
BASIC MEMBERS - Basic members are not allowed to post items for sale. You may post items for Trade in the Wanted To Trade Forums, or post requests for items to purchase in the Wanted To Buy Forums.
REGISTERED USERS - If you have not purchased a paid subscription, you are by default a Registered User. As such, you are not allowed to sell items on the forums. You may post items for Trade in the Wanted To Trade Forums, or post requests for items to purchase in the Wanted To Buy Forums.

Make sure your correct usergroup is displayed before posting!!! - If you are a Gold, Platinum, or Knifemaker member, you need to click on the User CP and select Group Memberships. Make sure that you have selected the appropriate membership group to display on your profile. If you have "Registered User" displayed and you make a For Sale post, you will receive a "Failure to follow the rules" infraction.
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Patrick, The Mods and Spark are well versed in the rules and guidelines, and are more than happy to help anyone, at any time. However, to prolong this discussion, and offer " Proof " for them to see, isn't helping your cause.

I think it may be best to let this one die, and move on to other things. It really isn't hard to grasp the basic rules, that are clearly spelled out for everyone. Not that my input is needed, just an observation. Sometimes ya just gotta know when to walk away
 
This is the most relavant part though, which i pm'ed to patriqq in our initial conversation.
I don't think it leaves any room for ambiguity:

Exchange Forum Rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/an...php?f=746&a=98
2.You are allowed to have any other level of membership and take part in discussions, however unless you have a DEALER membership you may not:•Mention or link to your business in any way (not applicable to Knifemakers)
•Use private messaging to sell to members
•Include your business name in your username
•Use your signature or avatar to promote your business.
•Take part in any discussions involving your business OUTSIDE the Feedback forum.


If you break any of these rules, your ad may be locked or removed entirely, without notice. If it's particularly bad, your account may be locked as well.
 
Spark said:
YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POST ITEMS FOR SALE UNLESS YOU HAVE A GOLD OR HIGHER MEMBERSHIP. That means if you have a BASIC MEMBERSHIP, you ARE NOT allowed to post items for sale. You cannot advertise items in your signature. You cannot advertise your homepage where you are selling things. You cannot mention that you are selling items elsewhere. You cannot do any of 1000000 other things that attempt to circumvent the very simple, very basic rules we have here.

If you are one of those special snowflakes that tries to find each and every exception to the rules, as if by finding one you'll be absolved of not paying for the correct membership, let me make it clear: I don't have time to waste on you. Suck it up, take the infraction, or even better ASK A FRIGGIN MODERATOR PRIOR TO POSTING IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.
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You should copy paste that into the rules, then no one could say the rules aren't clear.
 
1066vik said:
I do not see where you are being confused by even the "old" version of section 1?
or how you missed this when choosing the subscription you paid for?
Gold Membership
Cost:
Allows you to sell in the Exchange section, 100 private messages, a custom signature and a 100x100 avatar.

Basic Member
Cost:
Bare bones membership that allows avatars, signatures, limited attachments and private messaging. Does not allow selling in Exchange area (added today?)
Click to expand...

I did not miss this when I chose my membership; the rule you mentioned bans selling in the Exchange area. I did not sell in any area.


338375 - I agree with your advise to let this one die. My posting here was to request more clarity in the wording of the posted rules, and nothing more. My request was granted.
 
Karda said:
This is the most relavant part though, which i pm'ed to patriqq in our initial conversation.
I don't think it leaves any room for ambiguity:

Exchange Forum Rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/an...php?f=746&a=98
2.You are allowed to have any other level of membership and take part in discussions, however unless you have a DEALER membership you may not:•Mention or link to your business in any way (not applicable to Knifemakers)
•Use private messaging to sell to members
•Include your business name in your username
•Use your signature or avatar to promote your business.
•Take part in any discussions involving your business OUTSIDE the Feedback forum.


If you break any of these rules, your ad may be locked or removed entirely, without notice. If it's particularly bad, your account may be locked as well.
Click to expand...

To play devils advocate, according to these rules, Knifemakers may not use their signature or avatar to promote their businesses.

I point this out for academic purposes only and in no way am I attempting to argue or dispute the issue. The Mods and many users have expressed their viewpoints about the "old rules", and so have I. I believe the "new rules" are devoid of ambiguity, so as far as I'm concerned, the issue is solved.
 
patriqq said:
I believe the "new rules" are devoid of ambiguity, so as far as I'm concerned, the issue is solved.
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00100247-544358_catl_500.jpg


"New Rule...It's time to stop beating a dead horse before it angrily realizes it's dead and raises its head one last time to bite you on the ass."


(Just a thought.)
 
Karda said:
This is the most relavant part though, which i pm'ed to patriqq in our initial conversation.
I don't think it leaves any room for ambiguity:

Exchange Forum Rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/an...php?f=746&a=98
2.You are allowed to have any other level of membership and take part in discussions, however unless you have a DEALER membership you may not:•Mention or link to your business in any way (not applicable to Knifemakers)
•Use private messaging to sell to members
•Include your business name in your username
•Use your signature or avatar to promote your business.
•Take part in any discussions involving your business OUTSIDE the Feedback forum.


If you break any of these rules, your ad may be locked or removed entirely, without notice. If it's particularly bad, your account may be locked as well.
Click to expand...

patriqq said:
To play devils advocate, according to these rules, Knifemakers may not use their signature or avatar to promote their businesses.

I point this out for academic purposes only and in no way am I attempting to argue or dispute the issue. The Mods and many users have expressed their viewpoints about the "old rules", and so have I. I believe the "new rules" are devoid of ambiguity, so as far as I'm concerned, the issue is solved.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you skipped that part. Respectfully, I have underlined, bolded, enlarged, and highlighted that section for your future reference. While your posts have been polite and well mannered, there really doesn't seem to be an issue to argue against other than that you aren't reading the rules right. They are fairly straightforward, and the response Karda sent you is the exact answer to this argument.
 
Much clarity in this thread, too bad some of the miscreants have very dark glasses. :cool:


Leadfoot
 
Is it really that hard to follow the spirit of what is going on here?

People pay and support this site. They help keep it open.

How hard is it to realize that to advertise or sell on the backs of those who keep this place open is not the right thing to do?

It really is not that hard for reasonable people to understand right from wrong.
 
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