Resilience with Upgraded Steel?

[larry1096]

I'm not so sure that changing to that steel would lead to any performance gains

Who said anything about performance gains?

This is a KNIFE FORUM; we don't think rationally to begin with, or we'd all carry boy scout knives; in fact, we'd own and carry ONE boy scout knife for our entire life.

Larry

 

[singularity35]

I'm not so sure that changing to that steel would lead to any performance gains

Who said anything about performance gains?

This is a KNIFE FORUM; we don't think rationally to begin with, or we'd all carry boy scout knives; in fact, we'd own and carry ONE boy scout knife for our entire life.

Larry

The title is resilience with upgraded steel, I think rycen meant that BD-1 is not an upgrade over 8Cr13Pos.

 

[RetiredGuns]

I honestly can't imagine a bigger pool to swim in than Spyderco. Scales, colors, steels, locks, ergos, short runs, Global, etc.. No need to put a $100 blade in a $40 knife with all these choices.

 

[singularity35]

I'm not so sure that changing to that steel would lead to any performance gains

I honestly can't imagine a bigger pool to swim in than Spyderco. Scales, colors, steels, locks, ergos, short runs, Global, etc.. No need to put a $100 blade in a $40 knife with all these choices.

Agreed.

 

[Brummie]

I've posted in a number of previous threads that I would really like to see (and would buy) a Resilience made with better steel and a thicker blade stock. The reason is that I really want a robustly made Spyderco with a 4" cutting edge leaf blade, good steel and compact design (i.e. minimal handle:blade ratio). Contrary to the post below, I don't think Spyderco has this territory covered - the larger Spydercos all tend to have big choils and relatively short cutting edge length. A number of their longer blades also have very fine points, and it looks like the folding puuko they have in the works will be the same.

I honestly can't imagine a bigger pool to swim in than Spyderco. Scales, colors, steels, locks, ergos, short runs, Global, etc.. No need to put a $100 blade in a $40 knife with all these choices.

 

[gomipile]

I agree. I love the Spyder hole, but I prefer the Tenacious series blade shapes to pretty much everything else by Spyderco. Full choilless edge, useful tip thickness, FFG, easy dhape to sharpen with guided systems, enough belly, optimum leverage position for the opening hole are all good qualities which rarely get packaged together.

I'd pay $200 street for a knife with an Elmax blade the same shape as a Tenacious, with G10 scales, compression lock, wire clip, and only one liner (for the lock.)

 

[mactheknife801]

I agree. I love the Spyder hole, but I prefer the Tenacious series blade shapes to pretty much everything else by Spyderco. Full choilless edge, useful tip thickness, FFG, easy dhape to sharpen with guided systems, enough belly, optimum leverage position for the opening hole are all good qualities which rarely get packaged together.

I'd pay $200 street for a knife with an Elmax blade the same shape as a Tenacious, with G10 scales, compression lock, wire clip, and only one liner (for the lock.)

I am with you on this one, I would gladly pay $200 for the features of a tenacious in a premium offering. Not that there aren't a ton of spydies that are similar as premium offerings, the tenacious design is just like a perfect edc for me.

 

[Brisket]

As a knife instructor of 15 or so years, it meets all the criteria for the way I use a knife; effective size, tip down carry, 'snappable' (inertial openable), liner (and not frame) locking, and suitable for both forward and reverse grips.

First of all, I am not a knife instructor nor have I have any formal training in the subject of knife self-defense. I have some understanding, or so I thought, of the fundamentals of the subject mostly through research on knives in general. I am puzzled by your selection of the Resilience as an alpha or ideal knife for self-defense. I understand the comments regarding effective size, tip down carry, ease of deployment and suitability for forward & reverse grips. What I don't understand is your preference for a liner lock as well as the desire to purchase a more expensive version of this knife at the price level of knives that seem better suited for self-defense use than this knife.

I have had a liner lock disengage on me years ago when field dressing a deer and my hand twisted around the handle, so when I once read a respected authority on self-defense knives like Michael Janich point out how the same thing can happen with liner locks in a self defense situation it made sense to me. The pronounced relief cut of the the Resilience/Tenacious/Persistence design certainly doesn't appear to me to mitigate the risk of accidental disengagement happening. Perhaps there is something about the specific self-defense technique that you teach that I am not understanding.

I feel more secure about a back lock knife such as the Endura, Caly 3.5, & Matriarch 2 than a liner lock and the Endura is even available in a trainer version. I feel even more secure with the caged ball bearing lock like the Manix 2 and the most secure with the compression lock like the Para 2. If I were to chose a liner lock for self-defense I would feel much more comfortable with the Gayle Bradley liner lock than the Resilience because I think it is superior in function. I don't have a Military with the Reeve Intregral Lock, but my understanding is that it is excellent.

I've also experience the famous hand bite of that series (Persistence, Tenacious, Resilience), so suffice it to say they are not at the top of my Spydie favorites list but I do think they are great values for EDC slicers. As to the original topic I don't see a large market for a China made Resilience in an upgraded steel, but when I see that nutnfancy guy spray paint one of these knives and sell them for the price of a Sprint Para 2 I realize I could be wrong. Yeah, the same guy that complained in that agonizingly long video that the Japan made Temperance 2 was too pricey yet his spray painted $30-50 knives are somehow a good value at 4-5 times that.

 

[gooeytek]

Manic XL or Gayle Bradley, anyone?

 

[gomipile]

Manic XL or Gayle Bradley, anyone?

The Gayle Bradley is a great knife, but it has a hollow grind, and the handle doesn't have the traction that the Resilience does. The Resilience handle slopes in a way that helps keep the hand from slipping forward if you grip it firmly, and the G10 is much grippier than the Gayle Bradley's carbon fiber.

The Manix 2 XL has a huge choil, which throws off the edge length to closed length ratio.

So, neither one really fits the same profile as the Resilience.

 

[SeaxyBeast]

My attraction to the Resilience is based on blade shape, balance and overall size. Here in Illinois (the ONLY non-CCW state) it serves as my primary defensive weapon. As a knife instructor of 15 or so years, it meets all the criteria for the way I use a knife; effective size, tip down carry, 'snappable' (inertial openable), liner (and not frame) locking, and suitable for both forward and reverse grips. The Military is a great knife, but not quite the same.

I am puzzled by your selection of the Resilience as an alpha or ideal knife for self-defense. I understand the comments regarding effective size, tip down carry, ease of deployment and suitability for forward & reverse grips. What I don't understand is your preference for a liner lock as well as the desire to purchase a more expensive version of this knife at the price level of knives that seem better suited for self-defense use than this knife.

I have had a liner lock disengage on me years ago when field dressing a deer and my hand twisted around the handle, so when I once read a respected authority on self-defense knives like Michael Janich point out how the same thing can happen with liner locks in a self defense situation it made sense to me. The pronounced relief cut of the the Resilience/Tenacious/Persistence design certainly doesn't appear to me to mitigate the risk of accidental disengagement happening. Perhaps there is something about the specific self-defense technique that you teach that I am not understanding.

Been thinking about this a lot because I carry a Resilience regularly and have been training in FMA for three years in a very blade conscious style. Lock security is a concern for me, but not an overriding one. The Resilience has serviceable blade steel and a good combination of carryability, blade size, and ease of opening for a larger edc that can be used to great effect when pressed into service as a weapon.

When I began thinking about how to upgrade it with a combination of better steel and a more secure lock along with a minimal choil for safety if the lock failed to fully engage I realized that the Manix2 XL came fairly close to what I was looking for. It gives up 10mm of blade length and another 10mm of cutting edge, but I don't think that the difference in length is enough to change the knife's effectiveness relative to the Resilience for SD.

Dang...now I really want to get a Manix2 XL and I can't until after the holidays. Good thing I have that Resilience.

 

[FCM415]

Theres is the crowd that likes the tenacious design and would like upgraded steel on their preferred choil less design. Thats all. Next...

 

[all 41 + 14 all]

It's not likely that you will see exotic steels in China, at least for a while anyway. Carpenter is in the process of teaching their makers to use CTS BD1. I've heard they're using VG-10, but having had an opportunity to test the results.


sal

Exotics would be nice, but not 100% necessary. You'd think that China, being a fully industrialized nation, would manufacture plenty of D2 or something very similar to it. Plus there should be a small army of engineers who've used it for machine parts more complex than knife blades. Same goes for Chinese equivalents to M2 high speed steel. And honestly, 9cr17 shouldn't be all that difficult to master.

The supply of good steels is there. The engineering talent is there. Maybe knifemaking companies just need to get up to speed with neighboring factories? I think it will happen sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.

 

[ctk123]

I own several "high end" Spydercos- Militaries, PM2's, sprint runs, Endura's and Delica's. I just got a Tenacious to see what all the hype is about, and man, I am just blown away by the quality and the design! I'm hard pressed to find a defect, the blade is perfectly centered, and the full SE is razor sharp! I am also really digging the pattern, I like the lack of a choil, and the blade shape is awesome. Time will tell how well I like this design, but from what I've seen so far, I'd gladly fork over $100-$125 for an S30v version, as unlikely as that is to happen.

 

[nickvnlr]

I am a new member to the forum (long time lurker). I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to add my voice to this sentiment. I keep thinking to myself that I would absolutely pay a premium for a Tenacious with a more premium steel. I love the Tenacious pattern, but want a better steel. I love the blade shape/grind with a liner lock and the ergonomics are superb. Some kind of sprint run in a premium steel would be ~awesome~.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Nick,

Welcome to our forum.

The new Farid "K2" is a large knife with a better steel. it's considerably more expensive, but it is also in the range that we'd have to go if we made it elsewhere with a maker able to work the exotic steels.

sal

 

[arty]

This is an old thread...IL now has CC permits.

 

[nickvnlr]

Thank you Sal.
Farid K2 looks pretty cool, but I haven't seen pricing on them yet, so am unable to comment on pricing yet.
Wasn't the Byrd Catbird Titanium sporting 9Cr18MoV? Was it a failed experiment or is this something that could be applied to the Tenacious line?
Thanks again,
Nick

 

[nickvnlr]

Double Post...