Rethinking down sleeping bags

Cpl Punishment

Cpl Punishment

Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
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OK, I've been thinking about the recent down vs synthetic thread, and am willing to give down a second hearing.

First I looked at some of the recommended bags, This one looks like the bawls, but. . .HOLY POOPER-SCOOPERS BATMAN!! You guys aren't kidding, these things aren't cheap!

OK, I'm over my infarction.
Hell, I pay over $500 for a knife, same for a pack with all the accessories, so why not one of the main things that can keep my ass alive?

My biggest fear is the whole "can't get down wet" thing.
Now, in the one I listed, it says it has a "weather resistant" shell. How much weather does that resist? It says it's part of the Gore Windstopper series. Does that mean it'll keep out as much crap weather as my MSS Gore-Tex bivy sack?

Beyond that, Brian Andrews mentioned there are easy ways to keep down bags dry in the back pack besides conventional dry bags, and also ways to keep them from getting wet when using them. Care to elaborate?
 
Make sure to check the loft number of the down. The higher the number the better the insulating value, lower the weight and the greater the compressability.

Several easy ways to keep them dry in the pack. Dry bag's work, a cheaper alternative is a trash compactor bag. It also helps to use a pack liner such as a large heavy plastic garbage bag. If all the gear in your pack is in bags, then palced in a liner bag the chances of your gear becoming wet enough to interfere with performance is reduced to just about zero.

Most of the shells on quality down bags are also water resistant coated as well.

I use a Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15 degree bag. These bags have the advantage of no down on the bottom/back of the bag having a sleeve to insert the sleeping pad into instead since the down there would just be compressed anyway. My only gripe with the bag is I would prefer 800 fill down instead of 650 fill.

These features serve me well due to the fact that I use the bag when hammock camping.
 
http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Brand/Terra_Nova/Bivi_bags/Titan_GREEN.html


It's the best bivy bag I have ever owned..

Why take your 500 dollar bag out of your 500 dollar bag to put in on the ground when you can put it in another 500 dollar bag. :cool:
just to make sure the thing that is saving your ass continues to do so when things get wettish..


I love the Titan for many reasons, but one of them is that it's the dryest bag I ever used. The bottom is made of gore-tex too, and that makes all the difference.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Now, in the one I listed, it says it has a "weather resistant" shell. How much weather does that resist?
Click to expand...

They are built to deal with indirect moisture, meaning body vapors ,condensation, mist and the like. Exposed to direct rain will cause you problems but your not gonna do that for long anyway. My bag is not the heavier duty ones you are mentioning either, I would think they will put up with even more.

I have the WM Alpinelite, its just thier lightweight version of the bag your looking at with a 20* temp rating. It only has a DWR treatment, but I can still pour a glass of water over it without it soaking in. This coating will break down over time but you can purchess it and reaply as needed. Its not just like the spray on silicone stuff that you can get at walmart. DWR seems to work its way into the material. And it remains very breathable will being water resistant which is pretty important with down.

I used this bag for 5 weeks in 08 on the A.T. with just a flat tarp, and it saw its fair share of moisture and dealt with it very well. Particuarly in these pics.The first one was a pea soup foggy- all night thunderstorm which managed to make my tarp condensate like crazy, the second were a ridge in the smokies where I setup a relitively high pitch to enjoy the evening then the weather turned into a very dense fog that blew low across the ridge all night and directly underneath my high tarp.

atstuff001-1.jpg


atstuff003.jpg


Both next mornings my bag was totally covered in a sheen of moisture without the insulation being compromised. Both mornings I shook the bag off, crammed it in its stuff sack and used it again the next day without problems. A day or to in town spread out on a bed seemed to remedy whatever built up moisture occured.
atstuff006.jpg


If your thinking of trying a down bag, Western Mountaineering is a helluva place to start!:thumbup::thumbup:


atstuff005.jpg


atstuff004-1.jpg
 
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Keep in mind that you want the shell of the bag to breath adequately or you'll wet the insulation from the inside through perspiration. Better to keep the bag dry by keeping it out of the weather by using a tent or well pitched tarp. I'd be concerned about a Gortex bag...but maybe I'm over reacting, and a Gortex bag will breath just fine.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
My biggest fear is the whole "can't get down wet" thing.
Now, in the one I listed, it says it has a "weather resistant" shell. How much weather does that resist? It says it's part of the Gore Windstopper series. Does that mean it'll keep out as much crap weather as my MSS Gore-Tex bivy sack?
Click to expand...

I don't believe that Windstopper is water resistant. If you want water resistance I suggest you take a look at Feathered Friends. They offer eVent fabric which is used for rain shells. On their webpage they only list the price w/eVent on their higher end bags and it adds about $50 compared to the Epic shell; however since FF is a true custom maker they can make any model with eVent if you wanted.

Since the WM you listed is a 15° bag I assume that's what you're looking for and FF doesn't make that temp rating. A Swallow (or Swift if you need a wider bag) with overfill would work in that temp range and overfill doesn't add much to the price. Keep in mind that the temp rating from WM or FF is more likely to be accurate than the rating from most other manufacturers.

wildmike said:
I use a Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15 degree bag. These bags have the advantage of no down on the bottom/back of the bag having a sleeve to insert the sleeping pad into instead since the down there would just be compressed anyway. My only gripe with the bag is I would prefer 800 fill down instead of 650 fill.

These features serve me well due to the fact that I use the bag when hammock camping.
Click to expand...

It is true that the down on the bottom gets compressed. A good quality down bag has "continuous baffles" which means you can shift the down around. On my 20° bag I often do that and end up with most of the down on the top if it's cold, if it's warmer I can shift the down to the bottom so I don't sweat to death.
 
Yeah, just for the record, I'm not wanting to unroll the bag in 6" deep of standing water in a downpour. But I'd like it to resist misting and heavy dew.

Checked out the Feathered Friends site, and the Raven seems to be a good pick there.

Either way, I have until next fall to make the decision.
 
i am still on the fence myself.

the down bag i just bought for wifey will be EXCELLENT for her uses.
me, i camp/hunt in all types of weather, and still the synthetics give me "piece of mind".
but, admit, my bag has never become wet to any extremes, so a down would "probably" be just as good if not better.

i am sure this helps you tremendously!...LMFAO!:p

hope others help ya much mo' dan' me.

good luck.

i will surely be following this thread as well.:thumbup:
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Now, in the one I listed, it says it has a "weather resistant" shell. How much weather does that resist? It says it's part of the Gore Windstopper series. Does that mean it'll keep out as much crap weather as my MSS Gore-Tex bivy sack?
Click to expand...

if it were me, I would just buy a down bag that did one thing well: insulate. repellent finishes (like the one on my patagonia down jacket) are just meant for the occasional moisture. eg. I'll walk a mile in the rain in my patagonia down jacket, but after that it starts to get soaked and comfort level goes downhill. pair a good quality down bag (quality means high fill power) with a bivy if you sleep in the open air. why are you sleeping in the open air? get a tarp!
 
You perspire all the time. If it evaporates fats enough, you don't notice it.

Perspiration as water vapor turns to liquid water when it gets "cold enough." (As in breathing on Winter-cold window glass.)

When you are in your bag, the colder it is, the more likely the location where it's "cold enough" will be INSIDE the bag. At that point, it's good to have either: 1) a polyester insulated bag 'cause polyster does not absorb water; or 2) a down bag with enough margin that you do not notice the loss of loft (thickness).

If you are using the bag for several nights in a row and lack warm, sunny weather to dry out your bag (like they do in the southwest), solution #2 goes away.

Ya' pays 'ur money and ya' takes 'ur choice.
 
Ultimately it's up to you. Down will be lighter for the same warmth. synthetic can handle getting "wetter". There is definately a learning curve in the are and feeding of any sleeping system whether its down or synthetic and you will either figure it out, or change to the other system.

Ive only ever used down sleeping bags including my thru hike of the appalachian trail (170 nights living in the bag including weeks of inclement weather at a time) and never had any issues with it getting too wet or not being able to deal with it one way or another and thats over EVERY season.


Just have to decided on the weight versus bulk issue and if you want to learn the skills involved.
 
cpl-
I had a WM bag for a long time (Ultralite), and I can recommend their weatherproofness with confidence. In fact, I've had quite a few down bags in my life, and they've all been able to handle quite a surprising bit of moisture and be OK. If you're really concerned, and expect to sleep out (and not in a tarp or tent), just carry a bivy sack to be on the safe side. I'd recommend this one: http://www.argear.com/montbell-ultralight-gore-tex-bivy-bag.html
Also, check out this new bag (can you tell I like Montbell?):http://www.argear.com/montbell-ul-spiral-down-hugger-1-sleeping-bag.html
Looks pretty sweet, got good reviews from Backpacker, and the price ain't bad for 800-fill down.
 
If you take care of your down bag, it will take care of you. Western Mountaineering makes some of the best bags out there. Here is mine in action:
KingsCanyon2008082.jpg


KingsCanyon2008080.jpg
 
i prefer a synthetic bag and just wear some merino wool jammies and possum down socks to sleep in...possibly even a beanie if temps get that cold.

lambertina GREAT pics! oddly enough i almost worked for the parks dept in visalia! are those pics taken in desolation wilderness?
 
Beware of waterproff bivys and waterproff other layers.... If you sweat a lot, perspiration will condense on them. If it is cold enough, it will freeze and fully block the fabric, rendering it absolutely un-breathable, making things even worse.
I don't want anything more watherproff than Pertex as an outher layer in a down sleeping bag...
Mikel
 
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