Rethinking S30V

T

Twindog

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I have been a big fan of S30V, but I'm rethinking that position because two of my blades -- a Manix and a Ritter RSK -- have chipped from light chopping of small (less then pencil size) branches.

When I take my morning walk, I sometimes find a small branch growing over the drive, so I slip my knife out of my pocket and give the branch a quick trim. Nothing big, just alder branch/twigs and blackberry branches.

But both blades have developed tiny chips in the edge. I haven't had this problem with other steels, so what's with the S30V? Does it require a lower hardening treatment?
 
Thanks for posting this. Outside of a heat treat defect, this is unacceptable. It should not do this with pencil sized twigs. My Number 12 Opinel cuts these type of small brush & does not do this. I cut small vines with it all the time & it never done this. :o
 
That, from what I've been reading more and more is the case with S30V. Most of the hype for that steel is just that IMO. It keeps a good edge but it doesn't seem to me to be as tough as D2 and certainly not as tough as some of the other stainless steels available. There are numerous reports of the blades edge chipping and tips breaking. I doubt there is anything wrong with your heat treatment but you could just send it back to Spyderco with a letter letting them know what happened and let them decide.

I think over time we are going to see that this S30V steel cannot handle the stresses of certain tasks with the steep bevel angles that they are being put at in the factory. Chances are this would not have happened if it didn't have that 30 degree bevel on it from the factory on your Manix. As for the BM, I am not so sure about that one as I've only handled one but as I recall it had been convexed so I don't know what the original angle was at from the factory on that particular knife.

It seems to me that Cliff Stamps tests on that steel proved it was more brittle and prone to breaking than first thought and it seems it had to do more with the fine grain or close grain structure of the steel more than heat treatment but I'm just going from memory there.
 
I've been re thinking S30V ever since my first small Sebenza with it. I'm still waiting for it to show me something.
 
I did not like the S30v on my small sebenza and found an old BG-42 bladed Large which sharpens easier and seems to stay that way just as well as the s30.
 
I don't claim to be an expert. But from what I know about steels, it just seems like non-stainless carbon steels make the best choppers. I'm starting to like them more and more after my experience with Opinels.
 
I noticed that Chris Reeves uses a 58-59RC on his S30V, which is about a point softer than the Manix. I didn't have any trouble with my Sebenza, so I thought that maybe CR knew something about this steel.
 
I’ve noticed a large difference between the performance of the S30V blades on my Al Mar SERE Operator and my Chris Reeve Neil Roberts Warrior.

I know that a lot of this difference is probably down to blade geometry and edge bevel, but something else is going on.

The edge on the Warrior seems to take abuse better, is easier to sharpen, and stays sharper for longer than the Operator.

I’m beginning to wonder just how big a difference heat treat and final RC hardness make to S30V.

I’ve got a classic Sebenza with micarta inlay on the way, and I’m interested to see if the S30V blade will behave in the same way as the Warrior.
 
[... light chopping of small]

Nothing big, just alder branch/twigs and blackberry branches.
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That should not chip S30V, it isn't a great steel for toughness, but that class of wood is really soft, can't you just bite those branches off. I have cut much larger and harder woods with the Manix. I used it as the primary knife on a lean-to awhile back.

The initial edge may be weak for several reasons (poor initial sharpening, though that is rare for Spyderco, though common for Benchmade). Recut the entire edge with a coarse hone to make sure all weakened metal is removed, resharpen it fully and see if that improved it. If it didn't then there is a problem with the steel.

If you have the time, sign up for the Rat Trap passaround, I would like to see you try the same with it, it also has a S30V blade.

-Cliff
 
In a recent comparison I did with a mini Ritter RSK, a Buck Mayo 172, and a Dozier blade, cutting hard, dry hickory (all from the same branch, debarking and then whittling about the same amount) and then cardboard (15 ft each, from the same box), I did not find a significant difference in edge holding between them. But I did find the Benchmade S30V had very small chips (not visible without magnification, I saw them at 20X), while the Buck did not. The chips were small enough that they would not affect performance.

Whether this is due to the heat treat (Paul Bos with the Buck), or the fact that I had sharpened the Buck a few times and the BM had the original factory edge, I don't know.
 
Twindog said:
When I take my morning walk, I sometimes find a small branch growing over the drive, so I slip my knife out of my pocket and give the branch a quick trim. Nothing big, just alder branch/twigs and blackberry branches.
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I've been using a succession of knives on similar tasks along a local nature trail, cutting back thorns and other bushes, without chipping.

The knives I've used most extensively are the Benchmade Emerson 975 in ATS-34, Cold Steel Vaquero Grande with a fully serrated blade of AUS-8A, CRK large regular Sebenza in BG-42, large Buck/Strider spearpoint in ATS-34, and MOD CQD in 154CM.

These are all essentially factory edges, with some light resharpening at the original angle.

I definitely agree the S30V should not be chipping like that and your best bet would be to resharpen it to a known angle and try again, especially since both knives are supposed to be superior performers.
 
Interesting. I have knives in S30V by Spyderco, Simonich mid-tech, Darrell Ralph, Jason Jacks, and Scott Cook. None have exhibited any problems with the edge chipping.
 
I have also had s30v chip on what I did not think was really hard use-I thought it was supposed to be the ultimate knife steel, but It's so brittle. I'd rather have a softer steel with higher ductility (lame attempt at sounding scientific) and has to be resharpened more often than a super hard razor that chips.
 
guy g said:
Nuggett, and that puts us in the minority.
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I'm in your club too. I have been very disappointed with the performance of this steel in several knives. A fellow forumite also advised me to put a fresh edge on one to remove any weakened metal, and perhaps a secondary bevel since I run mine thin. I have not yet done that, so I have to hold off on final judgement. But boy, I have found so far that S30V gets a lousy edge and doesn't hold it for very long at all, no more than AUS 8A. I am very unimpressed so far, especially since several of my S30V knives are quite expensive. For my small fixed blades in which I value edge holding, D2 and 3V are running neck and neck. I can't wait for Spyderco's ZDP 189 later in the fall with the Calypso and Delica, should be fun!

I will try freshening the edge and also the secondary bevel and see how that goes.
 
Dijos said:
I have also had s30v chip on what I did not think was really hard use
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Details?

Don M said:
...or the fact that I had sharpened the Buck a few times and the BM had the original factory edge, I don't know.
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That is possible, BM's factory edges are problematic.

-Cliff
 
CPM S90V according to Crucible data sheet way better then CPM S30V - it has similar as CPM S30V toughness but wear resistance even better then CPM S60V (known as CPM 440V) which is several times better then CPM S30V. I am wondering why nobody making knives out of it? I heart only about Microtech some limited run so far.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I have a Kershaw Avalanche and thought it was unbreakable.At work I was throwing it to stick in the plywood deck.After 30 sticks I let her go to the left to much,and the tip broke off. when I looked at the break point it was like cast iron when it breaks. The grains are big,and thats what makes these steels great cutters. Like micro saws. I reground the bade,and it now looks like a random task.I think these powder steels are not good if the hardness is to high. Sometimes I want to sharpen to a razor edge,but find it cuts just fine being somewhat dull to to my arm hair
 
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