Reverse twist cordage

DOC-CANADA said:
So that's it. If you think these will help you, let me suggest you copy them and paste them to a Word document. I sized the pictures so they should fit on a Word document without bleeding off to one side or the other.

So................... comments, criticisms, suggestions..................

Doc
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Great stuff Doc! Cordage is by far one of the more important skills to know how to do well! And also very satisfying.


An important thing to know when twisting is the angle formed between the two fibers while twisting. Too acute, the fibers will twist weak and loose. A good, taught angle ensures well-spaced and tight cordage!




Would also recommend first timers to do it with a partner. One person holds the knot end. The other the long fiber ends.

The person on the long fiber end begins twisting both hands in same direction. When the cordage appears like its beginning to tighten the knot holder twists in the same direction too. They keep the same pace. Now I say same direction! (Because he is opposite it is actually the opposite direction)...

Can also do the same thing with the knot in the mouth. Pre-twist the knot end a bit. Twist the long fibers in the hand and see it go by itself. Then take the knot out of the mouth and twist that end and repeat.

Leg-rolling moves up from there.
Once the concept is understood, the possibilities are there!


I believe I have some pics somewhere to better explain if you'd like...
 
I GOT IT!!!!!!

Been sitting here making cordage like a mad man. I have been using dental floss, which I always have with me. Now instead of a basically strong thread I have a nice tight cord that would be great for snaring, or a hella strong drop line for fishing or maybe a bow string. I have always wanted to learn how to do this, took me a minute to get my hands in the right position but easy enough with a little practice. Also the tighter you twist the fibers away from you the tighter and nicer your cord will be, great skill to have even if you are not planning on make natural cordage, being able to make what you have thicker and stronger is great to know.

Paleojoe,
quit teasing, I am ready for leg rolling please. Chris
 
hey Chris,

Another application - making cordage from unraveled clothing material or other fabrics, such as this cord made from unraveled jean material (denim).

Denimcordage1-IMGP0116.jpg


Or this one from unraveled old dress web belt.

Webbeltcordage1-IMGP0112.jpg


BTW, both these cords were used successfully for bow drill fire.

Doc

Hey paleojoe, are you going to tell him or do I? You might have to shave your leg, Chris :D

Or at least wet your pants. :(
 
DOC-CANADA said:
Hey paleojoe, are you going to tell him or do I? You might have to shave your leg, Chris :D

Or at least wet your pants. :(
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Well Doc since your here now, might as well go ahead, I'm sure I'm not the only one interested.

As far as wetting my pants, I stopped that about 40 years ago but don't see why I can't start again, especially for the sake of learning to make cordage. :D
 
August West said:
Well Doc since your here now, might as well go ahead, I'm sure I'm not the only one interested.

As far as wetting my pants, I stopped that about 40 years ago but don't see why I can't start again, especially for the sake of learning to make cordage. :D
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LOL, what I'm referring to is - when thigh rolling, if you're doing it on a bare leg (for better twisting action on the cordage), and you have hair on your leg, it will slip, rather than twist, so to make it work (a lot) better, you have to shave your leg. :eek:

On (denim) jeans, I found that it also slips quite a bit, so if you dampen the jeans, where you run the cordage, it grips better.

Another thing that works well, is a piece of brain tan on top of your leg upon which you do the thigh rolling.

Thigh rolling was employed by early peoples because you can make a lot more cordage in the same time and when you consider that some early peoples used to make 300+ foot long rabbit nets out of reverse twist cordage, speed was definitely desirable!

I don't do much thigh rolling, so I'll let paleojoe run with it, especially since he brought it up. If he can't find his pictures, I will post some (don't have any at the moment). This weekend, I think I'm meeting up with a buddy or two, and will get some pictures - much easier with another person doing the picture taking.

Doc
 
Sounds good, I look forward to it. About it being faster, that is what I figured and why I would like to learn it. Chris
 
theamazingdrew said:
great tutorial DOC!
if you dont mind me asking, did you injur your middle finger on your left hand?
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Thanks Drew - it was the result of drinking beer while making nunchakus on power planers :(, about 40 years ago. Took it right to the bone - had to go to a plastic surgeon. Didn't hurt much until the next day. :(

Doc
 
Great stuff Doc.. Just attended a natural cordage workshop yesterday with the folks over at practical primitive... it was intense....

Thanks again
 
This is a good thread, no pun intended. Making cordage out of cloth is a great skill to have. I have used burlap sacking and other sack materials to make cordage. I have also made cordage out of short pieces of heavy rope washed up on shore. That turns a two foot section of rope into a cord you could use to fish with.

Thigh rolling is the way to go. I have never seen any primitive people use anything else. I haven't mastered it yet. My technique is very different than most but it is also very fast once you get the hang of it. With good material and a bit of organization I can turn out meters per hour, a rate that generates enough cord fast enough to make a difference. I think this skill isn't mastered until you can turn out enough cord to actually do something with. I would encourage anyone learning this to not stop too soon but keep at it until you can make as much as you need in a reasonable amount of time.

Cordage making is a means to an end, not the end itself. Most things you do with cordage require lots of it. Being able to replace a boot lace or string a fire bow is a good thing, shelters, fishing, netmaking etc, are cordage intensive. One paiute deadfall may take a little bit of cordage but a line of ten or twenty is going to cost you more.
 
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Doc. Thanks for all the work you put into this.:thumbup: I have wanted to learn how to do this for a long time. Now I have no excuse.
 
Well I can leg roll now and getting pretty good at at. It is way faster but when your cord gets longer it gets hard because it starts twisting up on itself. Very good skill to know and am really glad you posted this and I learned how. Here is the video I used to learn to leg roll. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS_GSL4S238

BTW you don't have to shave your leg, your cord will yank the hairs out by the root so why dull a razor. :D
 
August West said:
Well I can leg roll now and getting pretty good at at. It is way faster but when your cord gets longer it gets hard because it starts twisting up on itself. Very good skill to know and am really glad you posted this and I learned how. Here is the video I used to learn to leg roll. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS_GSL4S238

BTW you don't have to shave your leg, your cord will yank the hairs out by the root so why dull a razor. :D
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Possibly depends on how long and how many your leg hairs are. The fibre justs slides across mine, although before I tried, I thought the same. Glad you're getting the hang of it.

So, I assume, I don't need to take pictures of leg rolling tomorrow?

Doc
 
DOC-CANADA said:
Possibly depends on how long and how many your leg hairs are. The fibre justs slides across mine, although before I tried, I thought the same. Glad you're getting the hang of it.

So, I assume, I don't need to take pictures of leg rolling tomorrow?

Doc
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Nope, I got it. Just wish I could have my archery gear over here. Lots of stuff I want to make now. A nice hand made flemish twist string for one, made by yours truly. Soon as it warms up I think I will covertly make an atlatl, been meaning to for a while and haven't yet. Also put these empty beer bottles to use knapping points. Chris
 
May as well contribute since I drug this thread from it's grave. :eek:

I haven't seen it mentioned so I'll toss in my 2 cents. Lots of applications for cordage will end up having a loop tied into them as a permanent part. If you are specifically making cordage for a task you know will have a loop its easy to splice in a loop with no knots or weak points, and will also give you a smooth joint. Here is 4 quick photos I took to illustrate the process using Spiderwire since it is all I could find on hand to twist up really quickly. I sharpied one strand before hand to make it stand out a bit for illustration purposes.

Step 1: Start the reverse twisting leaving 1 1/2" - 2" of "free" material on the starting end. As with all cordage, stagger ends for better results.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/mynamseused/Misc/1.jpg?t=1266126794

Step 2: Overlap free ends with working ends and start splicing them into your material.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/mynamseused/Misc/2.jpg?t=1266126813

Step 3: Keep reverse twisting like you would for a normal piece of cordage. Once you've worked past the loop a ways feel free to trim the excess. (With natural Fibers it isn't necessary to trim any excess as the fibers will twist into each other leaving nothing to trim, especially if the end of the fibers are tapered before you start. This will leave an really smooth transition.)

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/mynamseused/Misc/Picture010.jpg?t=1266126832

Step 4: Smile and enjoy a knot free loop. :D

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/mynamseused/Misc/Picture.jpg?t=1266127177

Necklace is a piece I made 12-14 years ago with Spiderwire braided cordage added.
 
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Great tutorial Doc! This has been on my list for a while, and for some reason I've avoided it. I'll have to give it a whirl and it looks easier than I feared. Making cordage from jeans and other materials is another great skill from readily available materials.

I know how important cordage is and I haven't bothered to learn it yet, so I carry quite a bit with me in the form of 550 cord, jute twine, dental floss and sometimes braided masons twine (I use this a lot when teaching skills as you can get it in a variety of fluorescent colors which makes it easier for everyone to see).

Thanks for your help! This should keep me busy for a while.
 
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