Review : Buck/Strider folder

[Cliff Stamp]

Cutting work both NIB and with a reworked edge, comments on grip stability and security, edge durability and tip and gross blade strength plus lock strength and security :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/buck_strider.html

-Cliff

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

Very nice review Cliff.

Do you feel the unsharpened tip is worth the loss in utility?

Also, how hard is the Strider to carry daily in your pocket compared to similarly sized knives?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Ron Hood advocates the tip of the Tanto as a great tool for precise work, very loosely he has said many times that he grips up close on the blade and uses that part as a "little knife". Personally I don't do that, if you do, then you will really dislike the unsharpened tip.

For general cutting, again the tip never comes into play. A full stroke that leads over the secondary point will just snag on the return and thus when slicing I just run back and forth along the primary edge.

However I do use the tip for scraping tasks as they are perfect for it unlike the more common drop points and such. The unsharpened but ground tip works perfect for this. It is also a nice scoring tool.

Note the edges on the point are ground to meet, they will catch on my fingernail. If you wanted to cut with them a few passed on a ceramic rod would have it sharp. The grind is of course very obtuse and thus won't cut overly well.


In regards to carry, I don't have any other similar sized knives. In fact I don't own many folders at all for reasons I have commented on in the past. However I did note that due to the texture of the grip drawing and clipping this knife is much more difficult than others I can remember.

Good points Anthony.

-Cliff

 

[shootist16]

Im really looking forward to the drop point Strider. I believe I will like it more than the tanto.

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Dennis Bible

[This message has been edited by shootist16 (edited 02-07-2001).]

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Thanks Cliff! If I can single out my own obsession here ... yet another liner lock that over and over is declared "very strong, feels rock solid!", which fails when torqued. Not everyone feels that torquing is a reasonable test, I think they're crazy but I'll accept it. But if you do think torquing is a reasonable test, please take note, how thick the liner is and how solid it feels does not necessarily indicate a solid lockup.

I've repeated that a lot but I don't think people really believe me. I can show you folks a delicate gentleman's liner lock with a liner so thin that it will bend far with mere hand pressure on the blade, but will pass every torque and spine whack test you can throw at it. But I've seen lots of these overbuilt locks fail the same tests. They had huge liners and felt rock-solid too, and had plenty of people posting about how they totally trust the lock based on that alone.

One failed test does not a trend make, Cliff's knife might not be representative, so you shouldn't draw firm conclusions about the Strider folder based on just this evaluation. But you should believe me about the dangers of evaluating lock safety going just by liner thickness and how "solid-feeling" a lock-up is.

 

[dogboye]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by shootist16:
Im really looking forward to the drop point Strider. I believe I will like it more than the tanto.

</font>

DENNIS!! Ya BASTID!

Where did you get that picture?! I LIKE it. I had seen it before, but it has been a while. I LIKE it (did I already say that?)

It isn't yours, is it, ya bastid?!

I like it so much I thought it need to be in a second post.

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I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts. -- John Steinbeck
Dog does not eat dog. - Juvenal

iktomi

 

[dogboye]

So Cliff, how does the Buck Strider's edge performance compare to the BT that you tested? Does the BT cut better?



------------------
I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts. -- John Steinbeck
Dog does not eat dog. - Juvenal

iktomi

 

[shootist16]

Got the picture from equipped to survive. They seem to have some good info from time to time.

------------------
Dennis Bible

 

[m]

Thanks for another excellent review Cliff.

Does anyone know how the Pinnacle and other frame type locks do on the torque test?

Does torque affect the Axis locks in any way?

 

[Lenny]

Uh, I just took a long look at the picture of the drop point strider.
Is it just me or does that blade look like a chisel grind?
What's up with that? A drop point chisel ground configuration?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Rockspyder, I have a WB from Strider that from memory will easily outcut the folder NIB. After the work I did on the folder I would assume that it would outcut the WB in its NIB status. I will do a direct comparison between those two shortly.

M, integral locks have the same inherent problem. They have however one thing that makes them more stable. When you put a side torque on an integral the liner will tend to move just as it wants to with a liner, however with the integral you are exerting a force in opposition assuming you are squeezing the folder tightly.

The last part is critial, when I was doing the lock work on the Buck/Strider it did not require a *very* tight grip to exert the forces necessary to cause the lock to disengage. I don't think that the compression I was exerting would have been enough to force the liner back into place on an integral lock.

The solution then is to simply keep a very tight grip, overly so even, on integral lock during such use. This will insure that the liner stays in full contact with the tang of the blade and thus the only way for the lock to fail is for you to compress the face of the liner or snap it is half. Both of which should require considerable amount of force.

I should note that what I just said about Integral locks is not based on 100% exeperience. I have used a couple lightly and how they responded seemed to indicate the above. However I could not repeat what I did with the Strider on them as I didn't/don't own them and the possible for damage is highly likely.

It is also critical to note that as Joe says, it is possible to build stable liner locks. However it is *very* difficult to figure out who makes them. I have not tried many, Spydero, Buck/Strider and a few cheap ones, but the inherent instability as compared to a simple lockback really screams out to me as a glaring flaw. Comparing the lockbacks from the same people in every case gives a much more stable lock. You basically have to break them apart to get them to release.

Lenny, there are details of the drop point folders in both the Buck and Strider forums. I cannot remember any mention of chisel ground blades.

-Cliff

 

[toothed]

I wouldn't mind a chisel ground blade if it is done on the right side of the blade (yes, I'm right-handed). Other than marketing concerns, are there good reasons why we don't see more right-side grinding? Or is it only me who feel this way? Just wondering.

 

[dogboye]

I seem to recall picking up one at Timonium back in December; I'm 99.99% certain that the drop point is NOT a chisel grind. Unless they changed it since then.

------------------
I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts. -- John Steinbeck
Dog does not eat dog. - Juvenal

iktomi

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I asked about the lock problem I had on the Buck forum :

http://web.archive.org/web/20020117132521/http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000790.html

It seems this is not the expected behavior, or at least not a common problem. I will be sending the knife back for them to get a look at, however I have blades that belong to other people I need to get out before then. So it will be a week or two. I'll update this thread whenever I hear from Buck.

One thing that came to mind that now seems fairly obvious is that after the heavy rope and wood cutting I did (say about 250 appliations of 50 - 150 lbs) there was slight play in the blade. This might have have been the reason that the liner tended to move under sideways torque.

In hindsight I should have looked at this NIB, but then again if I damaged the lock shortly after recieving it, it would have significantly reduced the amount of information I could get from it. And in any case the point then would be that the knife was stable NIB but after some use became stable - not overly positive.

I also asked about it in the Strider forum to and see if I can get some information about how the lock behaves from those guys as they are fairly straightforward :

http://web.archive.org/web/20020928040709/http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum63/HTML/000148.html

For comparision I tried to do the same thing with two Gunting drones that I have on loan from Sal Glesser. No chance. The liners will not move under lateral force at all. I exerted more force that I used on the Buck/Strider and saw no movement in the liner in the compression lock. It seems to me that the reduction in strength caused by lateral torque is going to be very small if anything at all.

I get more impressed with that lock everytime I try something with it. It is smooth to open and easy to close. It wears well, even under high impacts (the kinetic openings). Is very stable in regards to torques and tight grips. And I would assume is very strong, however I have seen no direct statements from Spyderco about this except I assume it is over the 200 in.lbs of torque per inch of blade length. The only thing that I can see that remains to be evaluated is how it handles excessive grime and such around the lock area.

-Cliff

 

[dogboye]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cliff Stamp:
.....For comparision I tried to do the same thing with two Gunting drones... The liners will not move under lateral force at all.
I get more impressed with that lock everytime I try something with it. It is smooth to open and easy to close. It wears well, even under high impacts (the kinetic openings). Is very stable in regards to torques and tight grips..... The only thing that I can see that remains to be evaluated is how it handles excessive grime and such around the lock area. </font>

How does the compression lock handle the infamous "spine whack"? Have you tried that? Or is that what you're talking about above when you say "high impact"?

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The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. - Ambrose Bierce
Most dog owners are at length able to teach themselves to obey their dog. - Robert Morley

iktomi

 

[m]

Thanks Cliff, as always I appreciate your views.
I do have to disagree with the views from several members that I have read lately about lockbacks though.I have had lockbacks disengage on me with a tight grip whether the release point was in the middle or on the end of the back.They also pick up lint like a magnet in the critical lock area and then easily disengage.If the geometry isn't correct in the critical lock area they will disengage with relatively little force. One of the big reasons we are seeing more lock designs is because of the unreliability of the lockback imo.
m

 

[rogue_spear]

The answer to the problem would be the addition of a axis or arc type lock but that would increase the price of the buck strider and effect the number of sales.

 

[GREENJACKET]

Cliff,
Wondered what you were up to. Still want a saw review.

Yet another great piece of investigative blade work. It just shows that the Liner Lock is not that easy to make work well. Big boys can struggle to get it right too. I'll use them as they are convenient, but don't rate them very highly - only one step above a slip lock.

Thank you.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Rockspyder, the compression lock on both Guntings is solid under spine whacks.

M, in regards to lock backs my experience has only been good. To get specific this was with Spyderco, Cold Steel, Buck and a couple of cheap brands.

With Cold Steel it is the cheap grips that come apart before the locks so they are stable by simply having a weak grip.

I have used a couple of bucks awhile ago for more than a few years and have no memory of them unlocking accidently under hand pressure nor dirt / lint.

I had a Spyderco Calypso Jr. for well over a year and it was always stable. The current owner has used it so much that the edge has worn back below the notch at the start of the blade. It is still stable and the lock goes into a very deep cutout - one of the problems with some lockbacks is that is fairly shallow.

Which lockbacks have you had problems with?

In regards to dirt on the lock in general, I would be surprised if any lock was stable if the locking surfaces became excessively contaminated.

In regards to new locks. I think one of the main reasons people don't like lockbacks is that they don't open and close one handed with the same ease of other locking systems.

Greenjacket, saw review is in the works, will be completed as soon as it thaws.

Note, both Buck and Strider have responded to the behavior of the folder in the links given above.

-Cliff

 

[m]

Cliff
I don't think I have had a lockback that won't disengage under the circumstances already mentioned and I have had lockbacks from Spyderco, Buck, Schrade, Cold Steel, etc. As far as contamination goes I am just talking about good old everyday jean pocket lint.
Thanks,
m