Revisiting the "big blade" survival knife debate...

S

SR69

Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
238
Now that I'm more experienced with my blades, I've been thinking about
what I'd really need in a survival knife. The thing that I'd see myself using it
for most would be for fire & shelter building.

When I've used my ESEE-6, I've looked at stuff I'd want to tackle
(like chopping down small trees), but didn't think it'd be a bright idea
to do it with a 6" blade. Of course, in a survival situation, I'd do what
I'd have to do to get what I'd need.

So, I was thinking about an ESEE Junglas paired with a Mora
Companion/Robust for a relatively cheap set-up (<$200.).

Question:
What "couldn't" I do with the Junglas/Mora Combo that I could do with the ESEE-6?

Basically, it's either a super big knife or a scaled down machete IMO.
I'm sure it's a chopping beast and would probably run rings around
anything else smaller in building shelter. Could it be the best replacement
for an axe/hatchet/machete if I could really only carry one major tool?

Damn...I hear those dueling voices again in my head getting me all
hyped-up to buy another ESEE product.

junglas1.jpg
 
That's not a bad combination, and I can't think of anything that you couldn't do with the pair of them than with your ESEE-6. I've plenty of experience of Moras, but none with the ESEE knives. For shelter construction and gathering firewood an axe is pretty hard to beat. I have a Cold Steel LTC Kukhri which chops pretty well, but I'm sure others can give you better input on the Junglas. Just my two penn'orth :)
 
Sounds like a good combo, but I would incorporate a small camp axe, to function for both chopping and hammering. Without a real chopping tool you run into the whole "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" situation.
 
The 6 might be better for heavy prying, but do you really need that? Everyone I know who has used one says that the Junglas works about as well as you can imagine given the design - it chops heavy stuff like a similar sized hatchet, clears light stuff as well as a 10 inch blade will let you, and works very well as a tool for slicing and batonning:

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/esee_junglas.html

Otoh, the MTECH 151 review that it is linked from the above shows the 151 working almost as well, and the 151 is only $30, although you're much more likely to have quality control problems with it, and will want to rehandle and maybe do a couple of dremel mods (open out the choil a little, take down the upper guard). You could also consider the insanely cheap Marbles Bolo, especially if you do need to clear undergrowth.

Also, I'd suggest consider a Russel Deerhunter or Scalpel(? the smaller Deerhunter, whatever it is called?) instead of the Mora. The full flat grind makes these a much better fine cutter.
 
Jkeeley1 said:
Sounds like a good combo, but I would incorporate a small camp axe, to function for both chopping and hammering. Without a real chopping tool you run into the whole "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" situation.
Click to expand...

What makes you think the Junglas isn't "a real chopping tool?"
 
I think it is a great combo, I would add a good folding saw and you are set, remember you are talking about survival, the junglas should be able to handle the wood size you need for survival shelters and fire, the saw comes in handy for when you need to conserve energy or be more quiet in the woods or just have a big hunk of wood to cut.
 
Short answer is nothing. The Junglas will do anything the 6 will just wont slice as well. I prefer to pair the Junglas with a 3 and then everything is covered.
 
Jkeeley1 said:
Sounds like a good combo, but I would incorporate a small camp axe, to function for both chopping and hammering. Without a real chopping tool you run into the whole "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" situation.
Click to expand...

I'd rather just bring a four incher, a folding saw, and a small axe.
 
Question is are you willing to hump a Junglas around. That is a lot of weight hanging from the belt. Agree it is a great set up, but I came to the realization that I did not want that much weight riding on my belt. I carry a 4" with firesteel on the belt and an Ontario 12" machete on my pack. If I lose the pack I still have enough blade & fire to get by if needed.
 
upnorth said:
I'd rather just bring a four incher, a folding saw, and a small axe.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more.
Mora Robust or 2000
Bahco Laplander Folding Saw
Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet
This package comes out to $155 or $170 if you want the Mora 2000.
 
meanwhile said:
What makes you think the Junglas isn't "a real chopping tool?"
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, the jungles is a great chopper, I guess I am picturing in my head things like splitting firewood, chopping down trees for building shelter, etc. the Junglas could do all these, but a small camp axe would handle the thicker gauge stuff with less physical exertion, plus can add a serviceable hammer on the back of the head. Which is why I said add the camp axe, as in a mora, Junglas and camp axe would be a good combo. Redundancy is a good plan in essential tools. 2 is 1, 1 is none.
 
It seems like (at least in my head) that it comes down to either carrying one jack-of-all/master-of-none knife or carrying two more specialized (although still very versitile) knives. I am only kinda familiar with ESEE knives, so I'll put this in terms I know so my point comes across properly...

One Knife: Becker BK2 (ESEE 5)
Pros -
This knife is CAPABLE of doing anything I could reasonably need in a survival situation.
Less to carry.
I'm more likely to keep one knife on me at all times (thus, its there when I need it).
Cons -
Its not as specialized as a large or small blade, so even though its CAPABLE it may not be the BEST for any given job.

Two Knives: Becker BK9 and BK14 (ESEE Junglas and Izula)
Pros -
Both of these knives are versitile but also VERY good at what they were designed for.
Redundancy (Although I don't forsee any of the knives I have listed breaking anytime in the next century).
Cons -
More to carry.
I'm not always gonna want to carry a BK9 with me.

That was at least my thought process. I have decided I like the single knife (BK2) best. Mostly because I'm more likely to have it on my belt all the time. Also, I think you can bridge the gap between the two options with knowledge, training, and PRACTICE. Remember that in a real survival situation your three most important tools are (in rank order):

1. The will to survive
2. Your knowledge and training
3. Your knife

Anything beyond those three is just a bonus.
 
My ESEE6 is as close to a "only one knife" knife as I own -- it will chop and section up 3" trees to make a shelter just fine -- not as fast as my Hudson Bay axe, folding saw, or Junglas, but it'll do the job if that's all you have with you.
OTOH, a Junglas and Izula 2 makes a very good woods combo, especially if you toss in a folding saw.
By the same token, if you're on a budget, a 1/8" thick 14" Tramontina machete ($15), Mora robust ($15), & Corona 10" folding saw ($20) will work almost as well and that combo can be picked up for well under $75 depending on how much shipping and/or sales tax runs you. Council or Tru-Temper Hudson Bay axe is about $35 if you would rather have that.
 
The ESEE 6 actually chops pretty well, but that's not feeding a wood burning stove all winter chopping. It'll do fine for tree limbs, saplings, and those sorts of things. I agree with 1066, it's my "one knife" knife. I love my Junglas and it chops and clears brush very well. It really depends on whether you want two blades or one. An axe and saw in the woods are pretty useless to me, as brush clearing is important. A $5 Tramontina 12" Bush Machete rocks in this role and weighs next to nothing. It's a poorman's Junglas. Don't discount the 6 as an emergency light duty chopper. It will handle it, especially if used with a lanyard with two fingers on the handle. Take care.
 
if i was going to choose ONE knife, it would be my Busse TGLB. The 7" blade is a capable chopper and is perfectly usable for finer work.

Of course, i'd rather have that and a good machete or my Condor boomslang...

when i go to the woods for more than a day or two, i usually take 3 knives. A small skinner, a midsized blade and a machete.

I don't believe in the "one blade for everything" school of thought for any reason other than absolute necessity
 
Jkeeley1 said:
Don't get me wrong, the jungles is a great chopper, I guess I am picturing in my head things like splitting firewood, chopping down trees for building shelter, etc. the Junglas could do all these, but a small camp axe would handle the thicker gauge stuff with less physical exertion,
Click to expand...

The Junglas chops damn near as well as a camp axe of similar weight - about 90% according to Cliff Stamp's measurements. You'd have to do an amazing amount of chopping the 10% benefit of the axe to pay for the extra pack weight in reduced exertion.

plus can add a serviceable hammer on the back of the head. Which is why I said add the camp axe, as in a mora, Junglas and camp axe would be a good combo. Redundancy is a good plan in essential tools. 2 is 1, 1 is none.
Click to expand...

Redunancy isn't free. The more you carry, the slower you move, the less distance you cover, and the more injury prone you are - and the less enjoyable hiking is. A small knife plus a big one is already more than enough redundancy for any sane need while hiking: if the Junglas broke than processing firewood would just take longer. Carrying an extra 500g to a kilo just so that in the event of an extremely unlikely problem you'd save time fire making is taking caution a bit too far, I'd suggest.
 
jdk1 said:
Don't discount the 6 as an emergency light duty chopper. It will handle it, especially if used with a lanyard with two fingers on the handle. Take care.
Click to expand...

Have you tried the trick of tting a monkeyfist in the lanyard, say around a small ball of wood? It gives something for your lower two fingers to grip.
 
meanwhile said:
The Junglas chops damn near as well as a camp axe of similar weight - about 90% according to Cliff Stamp's measurements. You'd have to do an amazing amount of chopping the 10% benefit of the axe to pay for the extra pack weight in reduced exertion.



Redunancy isn't free. The more you carry, the slower you move, the less distance you cover, and the more injury prone you are - and the less enjoyable hiking is. A small knife plus a big one is already more than enough redundancy for any sane need while hiking: if the Junglas broke than processing firewood would just take longer. Carrying an extra 500g to a kilo just so that in the event of an extremely unlikely problem you'd save time fire making is taking caution a bit too far, I'd suggest.
Click to expand...

If someone manages to break a Junglas, i wanna know about it... that's one HEFTY blade..

I'd prefer a Battle Mistress, or my Boomslang, but a Junglas is as close to bulletproof as anyone needs
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top